Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #64158
From: A R Goldman argoldman@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: [flyrotary ] RE: Tension Bolts
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2018 12:16:49 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Great history Lynn,thanks

It gave me tension just reading it๐Ÿ˜. 

One thing that is missing (unless i missed it) was the multiple rings machined or forged into the bolts in my Renesis. Additionally, there was only one bolt that had the plastic sheath on it. I think that it was one of the bolts that was external to the ring in which most of the other bolts are arranged (near the bottom of the engine.)

The engine was a first time rebuild with extremely low milage. I overhauled it with new seals, oil control rings, and all consumables to verify the story that i had been told about the history of the engine as well as to satisfy my own curiosity about the Wankel in general. 

At this time the engine has not been run and is awaiting reunification with the airframe (after the SS firewall is cut and installed)

Thanks all for your bolt responses. I hope, in the future to publish a tabulation of the results. 

Rich





Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 4, 2018, at 5:48 PM, Accountlehanover lehanover@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Tension bolt failures are rare when operating below 8,000 RPM. This is caused by the bolt ringing, or being sympathetic to major frequencies produced by the engine. Early engines were mounted by the front cover and the next support was the transmission mount. So a big bending load was always in play.  Under shock loading such as a dropped clutch, the engine twists against the dowels and this is resisted by only the front cover. Later engines were supported by mounts bolted to the center iron. This helped with failures of broken dowels in very high output engines. Later engines were supported only by the rear iron for the same reason. Some early engines would break a chunk out of the rear iron dowel hole. These were drag racing engines at high power settings being shifted with dog ring transmissions that produce brutal shock loads.   So, builders started adding more dowels. Works well up to big HP. Then add turbocharging and more broken dowels. Then add more dowels and, or, add oversized bolts. or studs. The stack has to be assembled and holes reamed to be a tight fit on the bolts. Holes drilled out and re threaded. And stupid high torque on the bigger bolts. The next step was to increase the size of the oil pan bolt holes, and then add a thick plate to the engine with a hole in the center under the center iron drain back hole. Bolt the pan to that or just run a dry sump and the plate would have no through hole at all.  Airplane engines probably will never make enough torque to have these problems.

       Later engines came with a sort of rubber hose molded around the center of each bolt which cured the problem. Or you can add a spiral of silicone (GE 100% pure) tub and tile caulk, the full length of the bolt. Let it gel up for a few minutes before inserting the bolt. The effect is that you sort of glue the bolt to the engine so it cannot ring. It makes a giant mess but it is cheap. I only had two bolts break in 30 years. Later bolts are not necked down. I never lost one of those. I never used Mocal coolers so I cannot comment. 

Lynn E. Hanover

In a message dated 7/4/2018 7:49:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

My aluminum plate is 0.5" thick; you can see it is routed around the rubber mounts, the center is wide open - just a 2.5"-3"" strip of metal left around the oil pan bolts/engine mating surface.
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
Out of curiosity (of course otherwise why would i ask) what is the thickness of your plate between the pan and the engine?

Happy 4th

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Whaley
Sent: July-03-18 10:41 AM
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft'
Subject: RE: [flyrotary ] RE: Tension Bolts

Rich, my engine is a 1988 13B, normally aspirated, aluminum plate bed mount, so the engine is held in-place by the oil pan bolts. The aluminum plate and engine mount are of my own design and construction.
Jeff


-----Original Message-----
Thanks Jeff

Which model of rotary

What kind of engine mount

Any other modifications to the engine

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Whaley
Sent: July-03-18 9:54 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: RE: [flyrotary ] RE: Tension Bolts

FWIW: I had one broken tension bolt on spark plug side of the engine; not exactly sure which one but it was around the 10 o'clock position if looking at the bolt heads end. The bolt broke in the threaded portion right where the threads were no longer engaged with the housing ... this was posted way back in 2011 ... see message #53485. Jeff



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