X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=HLeBLclv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=QRQ8+DjROdOifacHCpgN6Q==:117 a=sJ/fdJJQr3AOd2yxK7OFAA==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=R9QF1RCXAYgA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=zeCeww8OAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=XrB_QXFe1ivAy0UI6fgA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=XOae0U2QkjFcn-Yi7WkA:9 a=OoLFBsQZBqBv2pB5:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=xmGugT5kI7RWeT601fq3:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-yw0-f171.google.com ([209.85.161.171] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.5) with ESMTPS id 11324640 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 Jul 2018 22:10:26 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.171; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-yw0-f171.google.com with SMTP id j68-v6so2474036ywg.1 for ; Sun, 01 Jul 2018 19:10:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=uvapF6rxxeJZYXrxrZ3+XsJSf67JN0BFRJTVBw+hNhw=; b=Qz0MaMT0/o/U99KiDyg9zWiNkJ8R4UUFTSQAbWIfM3muA5CDpF8nMD9RiYZPBtICt9 7xh/gLvQQCNS6j3EoHIE6j5ClDi/ngilfsiGaYfwIbopUNRzrNaMD8GpnI5Xqnsj2vLW P719rTp3YEr6eUP6vFR+FAdM0gMHik/7HTyQ19KmMy/EPaz1GsM6iopv13yQGsCVamv2 Si35YzSFJpBVn9XH/wey74pZ6wWHpWQcAf2rvLinImyPh2opL6aJc37DPuYY8rt6aQHM Ep3iqa+6hD6joV/YcRHDDPQoueoTKSRtdMor2dqfNo6VM1QB3YxjkN8VL3f8aXeUKdh6 J9oA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=uvapF6rxxeJZYXrxrZ3+XsJSf67JN0BFRJTVBw+hNhw=; b=LChue6xrjpnkR5iSY4v9qk40Xf6TxrTf0cUnAMr2UTf/38yb6ol1UbOhK5bw2R6KGu IMKPuxGzvW9I6fpTSv4zaiYFc4SvmmRkTkWAytr0VMLNefbfY+eWG0D1uMGG+YyNKpJB Vi6AAuUH6JHvavr2+dZhnXxBb6uIMSe8LzgC7Pv8J12oswn6y4w33lzhTXQQ2yhHYGPw Rig0PWwHBK3YpX8pg+3Wis9GLJywFyjcuw043jbRYOQvFR6AlavYh/CxbYbkJLrnEGke kkIMP2WhV4YhzD9xhL+XIbeqw8feKtmqfVZ82sOXaGZNZFtbRnbjXQe2D34Hqcr6NOf7 I5XA== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0NA43Dod5oJ2smVcgRlVs5nzCDFXX1vUjh0jpMxZCsR0j19S0D cKK8kRBF5hLZkGm4fQq8J/aU1w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfJl+dWCN+dK56U0NBc8f0yO1WifqEiUkEObJPfqLz2wVJLxjMuBi0NUMtAnJU7vBRtMfIkXA== X-Received: by 2002:a81:708a:: with SMTP id l132-v6mr2492511ywc.485.1530497410188; Sun, 01 Jul 2018 19:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.10.218] (mobile-166-172-59-3.mycingular.net. [166.172.59.3]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id p134-v6sm292278ywe.30.2018.07.01.19.10.08 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 01 Jul 2018 19:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary fit out To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <2821cafe-964a-72db-7dc2-7c6711fb2e2a@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2018 21:11:02 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------63221A187D9559C54F842316" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 180701-4, 07/01/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------63221A187D9559C54F842316 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Always worthwhile to ask questions. I honestly never thought about mount style being related to the tension bolt issue, since it's been an ongoing 'thing' with rotaries. A different mounting style might have an effect, so it's worth at least asking the question. Charlie On 7/1/2018 4:34 PM, A R Goldman argoldman@aol.com wrote: > Charlie, > Perhaps you are right, but perhaps not > > The fact that there are failures in cars may or may not have relevance > here > > The assumption that a particular piece of equipment has no effect on > any other piece of equipment in an aircraft can possibly shut down an > important thread of inquiry that may be a safety issue. > >  Please don’t misunderstand and think that i have a pony in this race, > i am just curious as i am when ever things such as this bolt break > take place. > > How many on this list have had a broken bolt— > Where on the bolt did it happen > Which bolt or bolts suffered the break > Which model and sub model was it in > Was the engine blown > What engine mount was used > Was it tractor or pusher > Propeller installed > > Perhaps the data sample will be too small to derive any conclusions. > But the responses just might show something of importance > > Rich > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 1, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> Now I'm now confused. Are we talking about mount bolt failures, or >> engine assembly bolt (those 15"+ long ones) failures? I thought that >> mount design was one discussion, and block assy bolts was a different >> subject. If you're asking whether mount style affects block assy bolt >> failure, I'd think it's extremely unlikely. The bolts have failed in >> cars, and in a/c using the bed mount plate. >> >> Charlie >> >> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 1:06 PM, A R Goldman argoldman@aol.com >> > > wrote: >> >> Hi dave >> >> Can’t comment on the bolts.  Sorry >> >> I do have some questions about the mount >> >> I cant remember wha it looks like. But in my mind i seem to have >> rejected it for some reason in favor of the pan mount which was >> recommended ( and sold) by tracy. The girllls also were >> vehemently against the beam. ( of course they sold their version >> of the pan mount) >> >> It would be interesting to find out what types of mounts were >> used in other aircraft bolt failures? >> >> Inquiring mind wants to know! >> >> Rich >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 1, 2018, at 10:10 AM, Pam & Dave Williams >> padajute@idcnet.com >> > > wrote: >> >>> Hello Rich, >>> >>> Thank you for welcoming me to your hanger!!! The engine mount I >>> used was called (I think) a Shurs beam. It is square tubing with >>> the center of one side cut out. It runs left to right and sits >>> under the engine endplate between rotor 2 and the flywheel. On >>> bolts I found out that the chromemoly ½” are no longer >>> available. So the current list of available bolts are 5/16” >>> steel open bore(my bolts), 3/8” steel open bore (your bolts), ½” >>> titanium slip fit (from Mazdatrix). Do you have an opinion which >>> would be better, 3/8” steel open bore or ½” titanium slip fit? >>> Remember my motor is stock 13B and my concern is vibration >>> cracking the bolts. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Dave Williams >>> >>> *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft >>> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net >>> ] >>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 28, 2018 12:45 PM >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> > >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [FlyRotary] Re: >>> Rotary fit out >>> >>> Dave, It was good seeing you at my hanger last week. >>> >>> I forgot to ask you what kind of engine mount you used. >>> >>> Jim told me that your bolts were the same size as the ones in my >>> renesis minus the notches. >>> >>> I look forward to haring from you >>> >>> Rich >>> >>> In a message dated 6/28/2018 9:42:30 AM Central Standard Time, >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net >>> writes: >>> >>> Dave - where are you based out of? >>> >>> R/ >>> Luis >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net >>> ] >>> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2018 6:16 PM >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> > >>> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary fit out >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I am a newbie on the site. I have a Tailwind with a 13B and >>> Tracy's controls with his redrive. To this point I have been >>> very pleased with the combination. Last month I broke a >>> tension bolt and have ordered new and improved .500" bolts >>> from Mazdatrix. My original .312" bolts broke from >>> vibration. I have 20 hours on the motor and never had any >>> cooling issues. I suppose that means I am over cooled, but >>> that is okay with me. I will make cooling improvements when >>> I am back in the air. My 13B is stock and I run it at 6,300 RPM. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Dave Williams >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net >>> ] >>> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2018 4:48 PM >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> > >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary fit out >>> >>> Hey all >>> Just throwing it out there. >>> What's the thoughts on small production of engine mounts to >>> suit the rv6,7 for the 13b renises, also cowls, and efi and >>> turbo setup to suit. >>> Also bell housings. >>> My 13 b is currently out to get some cracks repaired on one >>> of the gear leg mounts, ( cracked due to the gear leg being >>> to stiff) Plane currently has approx 700hrs now and was >>> going well. >>> All temps were under control. >>> Small history >>> 13b renises pp >>> Custom efi >>> Modified james cowls >>> >>> 172ktas with free flowing exhaust, high fuel burn >>> 155 Ktas with restrictive exhaust under cowl >>> >>> Plans >>> >>> 13b renises with turbo with small boost >>> Simple new efi >>> Neil's new Psru >>> Bellhousing to suit >>> Radiators and all gear to fit the rv >>> >>> I welcome all insights and thoughts >>> >>> Cheers >>> Christian >>> Rv7 13b renises >>> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------------63221A187D9559C54F842316 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Always worthwhile to ask questions. I honestly never thought about mount style being related to the tension bolt issue, since it's been an ongoing 'thing' with rotaries. A different mounting style might have an effect, so it's worth at least asking the question.

Charlie

On 7/1/2018 4:34 PM, A R Goldman argoldman@aol.com wrote:
Charlie, 
Perhaps you are right, but perhaps not

The fact that there are failures in cars may or may not have relevance here

The assumption that a particular piece of equipment has no effect on any other piece of equipment in an aircraft can possibly shut down an important thread of inquiry that may be a safety issue.

 Please don’t misunderstand and think that i have a pony in this race, i am just curious as i am when ever things such as this bolt break take place. 

How many on this list have had a broken bolt—
Where on the bolt did it happen
Which bolt or bolts suffered the break
Which model and sub model was it in
Was the engine blown
What engine mount was used
Was it tractor or pusher
Propeller installed

Perhaps the data sample will be too small to derive any conclusions. But the responses just might show something of importance

Rich

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 1, 2018, at 1:28 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Now I'm now confused. Are we talking about mount bolt failures, or engine assembly bolt (those 15"+ long ones) failures? I thought that mount design was one discussion, and block assy bolts was a different subject.  If you're asking whether mount style affects block assy bolt failure, I'd think it's extremely unlikely. The bolts have failed in cars, and in a/c using the bed mount plate.

Charlie

On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 1:06 PM, A R Goldman argoldman@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi dave

Can’t comment on the bolts.  Sorry

I do have some questions about the mount

I cant remember wha it looks like. But in my mind i seem to have rejected it for some reason in favor of the pan mount which was recommended ( and sold) by tracy. The girllls also were vehemently against the beam. ( of course they sold their version of the pan mount)

It would be interesting to find out what types of mounts were used in other aircraft bolt failures?

Inquiring mind wants to know!

Rich 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 1, 2018, at 10:10 AM, Pam & Dave Williams padajute@idcnet.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hello Rich,

 

Thank you for welcoming me to your hanger!!! The engine mount I used was called (I think) a Shurs beam. It is square tubing with the center of one side cut out. It runs left to right and sits under the engine endplate between rotor 2 and the flywheel. On bolts I found out that the chromemoly ½” are no longer available. So the current list of available bolts are 5/16” steel open bore(my bolts), 3/8” steel open bore (your bolts), ½” titanium slip fit (from Mazdatrix). Do you have an opinion which would be better, 3/8” steel open bore or ½” titanium slip fit? Remember my motor is stock 13B and my concern is vibration cracking the bolts.

 

Thanks,

Dave Williams

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2018 12:45 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary fit out

 

Dave, It was good seeing you at my hanger last week.

 

I forgot to ask you what kind of engine mount you used.

Jim told me that your bolts were the same size as the ones in my renesis minus the notches.

 

I look forward to haring from you 

 

Rich

 

In a message dated 6/28/2018 9:42:30 AM Central Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

 

Dave - where are you based out of?

R/
Luis

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2018 6:16 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary fit out

Hello,

I am a newbie on the site. I have a Tailwind with a 13B and Tracy's controls with his redrive. To this point I have been very pleased with the combination. Last month I broke a tension bolt and have ordered new and improved .500" bolts from Mazdatrix. My original .312" bolts broke from vibration. I have 20 hours on the motor and never had any cooling issues. I suppose that means I am over cooled, but that is okay with me. I will make cooling improvements when I am back in the air. My 13B is stock and I run it at 6,300 RPM.

Thanks,
Dave Williams

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2018 4:48 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary fit out

Hey all
Just throwing it out there.
What's the thoughts on small production of engine mounts to suit the rv6,7 for the 13b renises, also cowls, and efi and turbo setup to suit.
Also bell housings.
My 13 b is currently out to get some cracks repaired on one of the gear leg mounts, ( cracked due to the gear leg being to stiff) Plane currently has approx 700hrs now and was going well.
All temps were under control.
Small history
13b renises pp
Custom efi
Modified james cowls

172ktas with free flowing exhaust, high fuel burn
155 Ktas with restrictive exhaust under cowl

Plans

13b renises with turbo with small boost
Simple new efi
Neil's new Psru
Bellhousing to suit
Radiators and all gear to fit the rv

I welcome all insights and thoughts

Cheers
Christian
Rv7 13b renises



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