X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=HLeBLclv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=+UpSZAZuxDPiCxwkhupPdg==:117 a=29enrAnRItQSTk1fLlBiTQ==:17 a=7oIiURvLaKEA:10 a=17xQtuQ_ucwA:10 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=7mUfYlMuFuIA:10 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ussYAuRwzOj-_FbXr58A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=PeLpsyVNuvD49V9y:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "Accountlehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from omr-a019e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.67] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.5) with ESMTPS id 11295303 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 19:51:28 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.29.186.67; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mbd01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mbd01.mx.aol.com [172.26.252.15]) by omr-a019e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 42D213800082 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 19:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mdx05a.mail.aol.com (core-mdx05.mail.aol.com [10.73.15.192]) by mtaomg-mbd01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id B00D838000081 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 19:51:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 71.67.186.114 by webjas-vac153.srv.aolmail.net (10.96.19.156) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 23 Jun 2018 19:51:10 -0400 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 19:51:12 -0400 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-Id: <1642f0f0406-c94-1ff57@webjas-vac153.srv.aolmail.net> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_171774_331999994.1529797870598" X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS DWEB X-Originating-IP: [71.67.186.114] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1529797873; bh=hyX0+qi+S2cURwJ0Aqkp4SG9uMpR1CXcn/upcWk60uU=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=h/N2LCh0p6gWfc/YoEc9PUDcbdI7+rsY2zItl9rXgYWfwgytM1cQdiWlEUKYoJwDj /NgBFgaqxVhTjV+o91fGy1gQ7XNACLj57k/YlMDrjHhdOlQVFOUYPJihLqD4okooZx faSFAQRDmtpwfugFO+wc6DKwrofjkaiGTChL3vOc= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afc0f5b2edcf07dab ------=_Part_171774_331999994.1529797870598 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C2=A0 A restrictive cooler would (might) show a higher oil pressure than t= he control valve will allow if measured before the cooler. Because the stoc= k relief valve is at=C2=A0 the end of the system. So the stock valve might = allow for 80 PSI, but never open if the full 80 PSI never gets to it so as = to activate. Racers measure oil pressure where the oil enters the engine. U= sually in an aluminum block that replaces the stock oil filter stand.=C2=A0 What do the bearings see, is the information you want. We raced for years w= ith 80 PSI entering the engine. And that was turning the engine to 9,000 RPM on each shift. Oil coolers are= constructed of many sharp edged tubes . Pushing oil or any liquid or gas i= nto the end of a sharp edged tube is nearly impossible. So many more tubes = than you would calculate necessary are used in order to overcome the sharp = tube flow problem.=C2=A0 So, if the stock relief were set at=C2=A079 PSI (s= tock on early engines) you would want to see 79 PSI on you oil pressure Gag= e as taken out of that aluminum block. Mistral calculated the cooler size r= equired on the test Piper. The plane would overheat the oil while still wit= hin sight of the airport.=C2=A0 The were also using aircraft oil in the engine. 20-50 if I remember correct= ly. So, flow got worse as the oil heated up.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The racer had an external oil pump with one pressure section (adjustable up= to any pressure you might want) and two scavenge sections. The scavenge se= ctions returned oil and air to a storage tank through a set of bug screen f= ilters and two Setrab 44 row coolers in series. The pressure section pulled= from the tank and pressurized oil went through two K&N oil filters in para= llel and then through a single 44 row Setrab cooler. So, we ran 100 PSI at = the engine. Shifting at 9,700 RPM. 250 HP.=C2=A0 Oil is Red Line 20-50 raci= ng synthetic.=C2=A0 A common choice for rotary racing. Not a single oil rel= ated failure in 30 years. Oil coolers (and filters) in parallel reduce flow= resistance. Coolers and filters in series increase flow resistance. Racing= oils collect heat and give it up more quickly than do conventional oils.So= any cooler performs a bit better with a synthetic. =C2=A0 Lynn E. Hanover lehanover@aol.com Any question, any time.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In a message dated 6/23/2018 4:59:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes: =C2=A0 Just got around to plumbing in mechanical gauge before cooler to see whats = really happening with my oil flows, wish I=E2=80=99d done it years ago! Lea= rnt so much in a couple of minutes on things that I have wasted so much tim= e second guessing. my second attempt oil cooler did work better than the or= iginal mazda cooler, but was atrocious overall, Pressure drop was about 60p= si at 1400 prop rpm. No wonder I cant cool the oil, bugger all is going thr= ough it, just enough to give me about 80psi oil pressure. Ended up bypassing cooler all together to confirm it is the cooler that is = problem not lines or anything else, well what a diference pressures constan= t at 78psi at all rpm=E2=80=99s =C2=A0 Trouble is no cooler manufacturer here seems to have charts of flow & press= ure drop on their coolers, very frustrating especially as prices seem to ra= nge between $100-900 for similar sizes, so makes it very hard to select cor= rect one. Andrew --=20 Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag ------=_Part_171774_331999994.1529797870598 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  A restrictive coole= r would (might) show a higher oil pressure than the control valve will allo= w if measured before the cooler. Because the stock relief valve is at = the end of the system. So the stock valve might allow for 80 PSI, but neve= r open if the full 80 PSI never gets to it so as to activate. Racers measur= e oil pressure where the oil enters the engine. Usually in an aluminum bloc= k that replaces the stock oil filter stand.
What do the bearings see, = is the information you want. We raced for years with 80 PSI entering the en= gine.
And that was turning the e= ngine to 9,000 RPM on each shift. Oil coolers are constructed of many sharp= edged tubes . Pushing oil or any liquid or gas into the end of a sharp edg= ed tube is nearly impossible. So many more tubes than you would calculate n= ecessary are used in order to overcome the sharp tube flow problem.  <= span style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; c= olor: #000000; background-color: #ffffff;">So, if the stock relief were set= at 79 PSI (stock on early engines) you would want to see 79 PS= I on you oil pressure Gage as taken out of that aluminum block. Mistral cal= culated the cooler size required on the test Piper. The plane would overhea= t the oil while still within sight of the airport.
The were also using aircra= ft oil in the engine. 20-50 if I remember correctly. So, flow got worse as = the oil heated up.

The racer had an external = oil pump with one pressure section (adjustable up to any pressure you might= want) and two scavenge sections. The scavenge sections returned oil and ai= r to a storage tank through a set of bug screen filters and two Setrab 44 r= ow coolers in series. The pressure section pulled from the tank and pressur= ized oil went through two K&N oil filters in parallel and then through = a single 44 row Setrab cooler. So, we ran 100 PSI at the engine. Shifting a= t 9,700 RPM. 250 HP.  Oil is Red Line 20-50 racing synthetic.  A = common choice for rotary racing. Not a single oil related failure in 30 yea= rs. Oil coolers (and filters) in parallel reduce flow resistance. Coolers a= nd filters in series increase flow resistance. Racing oils collect heat and= give it up more quickly than do conventional oils.So any cooler performs a= bit better with a synthetic.

Lynn E. Hanover
Any question, any time.&nb= sp;


In a message dated 6/23/2018 4:59:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net writes:

Just got around to plumbing in mechanical gauge before co= oler to see whats really happening with my oil flows, wish I’d done i= t years ago! Learnt so much in a couple of minutes on things that I have wa= sted so much time second guessing. my second attempt oil cooler did work be= tter than the original mazda cooler, but was atrocious overall, Pressure dr= op was about 60psi at 1400 prop rpm. No wonder I cant cool the oil, bugger = all is going through it, just enough to give me about 80psi oil pressure.
Ended up bypassing cooler all together to confirm it is t= he cooler that is problem not lines or anything else, well what a diference= pressures constant at 78psi at all rpm’s

Trouble is no cooler manufacturer here seems to have char= ts of flow & pressure drop on their coolers, very frustrating especiall= y as prices seem to range between $100-900 for similar sizes, so makes it v= ery hard to select correct one.
Andrew
--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag<= /div>
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