X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=HLeBLclv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=JFLq0Zg074/TNoPlXaVJig==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=xXDCcK6TKBsA:10 a=7mUfYlMuFuIA:10 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=t1vcyRkDfKQMLdqAPQEA:9 a=XX2YAU4Alm2kTbj4:21 a=gsrt8dZ3DMyBYTcQ:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=LqIYbgubpveOw_jR318A:9 a=vby1Z6sg2BoVfDz8:21 a=IJOi57d4eJl6LDuf:21 a=HQu1dKYaRFcU_ixG:21 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com" Received: from mail-ed1-f42.google.com ([209.85.208.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.5) with ESMTPS id 11295239 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 19:28:05 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.208.42; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-ed1-f42.google.com with SMTP id l23-v6so561286edq.0 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 16:28:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dH5VmeAqI2PxRrd0LRz/XIgeZv6SqG0uoNQ7j+lVO+Q=; b=RIhCrKVBLUggk+7cTYITsA7pGzPQtI5dVmeU48civX9CMMPuJ0D9AtCjZQ8BilcsKi Q9m/k3p0P4ruYvej7y+8LR71ds2yMfeJljY6J8Xud1lkAuV+KAWZ6pziQPfenzS/T5aS FIKT/RV85qoZ2h97PXlhXK3OK6o8sG6a3bIDNFx9Qh5q9WhrFqzLR1Z5ERkJMG14WOHZ WtEZEHm0tT0h2Yh0UUgA+gCb1YMW53mUSeZ+ww2EdtWL4h+biguEAANLVQeI8lX5HBrY laI/g6j+9jxT6BGxKpE9GS7QNzgJarMUmGr9KEkcazn0CfhonNSYC014tUE3L/Zb9TRz UVKw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=dH5VmeAqI2PxRrd0LRz/XIgeZv6SqG0uoNQ7j+lVO+Q=; b=RhFxLxpAmSFMZ3aNhr7eygSkf8zj059QSfy0edBwJMxiRMmrZrCdV8m7NCEuJ5vUUO /hG1GnESNzXRhDWnuvRCUG0ybvBA9O9KXkghedKjJVTmNH+9d3ENHoK+m52peZhSLH1c LnhPRd03v2Pe5X9Cfdgy//KM4xE2xaldipNh4lqJ9dh7ECJXNGqnEzf7ywxpUwLyhMQK RVFMTR4eQi5SdNjYwjZ5/itKH8rfBPF5xZk2QRNVleDXnGAqDkq6To500Ju73eY5n5Pq zTbyILqmX6SfKugspF8ZWxItmDg0n++CvPTfOKqlDpa3apuX4KqtYiniZbH5MswA2uVD y2+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E3JUUB5Z7BhiobRs9gm7Oz/1boAN46basKbpTOp+QgfIvnThZqT ZKGtr4YBbWek3kMHsgWCCzOogbPni/ei0H5NPg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKLUTR9L3ZEdgPHdTg5scjO9EGFHIed1MUJsW/JH4gpCu+gcdVJn6ocgYYVpqiEpD9TLPHraM35QFEfmlIGT0SQ= X-Received: by 2002:a50:a722:: with SMTP id h31-v6mr6273308edc.251.1529796468328; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 16:27:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a50:8c94:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 16:27:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 16:27:47 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Re. Rescaling the EM2 to metric To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000012cb76056f577f1a" --00000000000012cb76056f577f1a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I haven't touched the airspeed cal yet so it is still in mph. Those numbers for anything other than temp and pressure are still stock numbers from Tracy. I converted the temps only to metric. The pressure I left in PSI, but calibrated them only due to sensor inaccuracies. I always have the Dynon in knots and I recall that the comparison (after conversion) between the 2 always seemed close. Since I have changed the EM2 OAT to Celsius, I expect that the EM2 true airspeed will be inaccurate now so once I get flying again and get the important stuff out of the way (like learning to fly a taildragger), I'll play with the airspeed calibration using my Dynon as a standard and I'll see if I can get them to match in Knots. I'll post that info then. Canadian aviation is an odd mix of metric and imperial measurements with speeds reported in knots, visibility in statute miles, altimeter setting in "Hg, station pressure in millibars, altitude in feet but temperature/dew point is always in Celsius. I suppose it is like that in most of the world outside of the USA. I was 10 when Canada made the switch so while I understand both systems and at work as an instrument mechanic I deal exclusively in metric, I do have an odd mix of preferred measurements units myself. I prefer psi instead of kPa, but C over F, but speed and distance, I could care less. But metric is always easier when doing calculations, so the sooner we can all have a common standard the better. I have noticed in recent years that industrial instruments from the USA have now switched to metric, which simplifies my job. Previously we had a mix of European instruments in metric, but US instruments in imperial or standard which also confused the issue with volume (why did the US need their own gallon?). Furlongs per Fortnight! :-) Todd... is killing mosquitoes akin to killing fellow flyers????? Todd Bartrim On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 3:23 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Thanks Todd. This is very good info for making the EM2 just that bit more > user friendly for me. Is your airspeed cal in mph or knots? > Andrew > > On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 at 5:59 am, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Below is my EM2 calibration data table. I hope it comes through to the >> list OK, otherwise I'll post a link. >> The only Dynon I have is the D10A, which is just flight instruments, so >> other than sharing a pitot probe there is nothing common. The Dynon has >> it's own OAT sensor which is connected through the EDC magnetometer >> (electronic compass) >> >> EM2 Calibration Data >> Ch. # Function Scale Factor Zero Offset Sensor Offset Low Limit Hi Limit= sensor >> type location >> 0 H2O temp 3.152 20 447 100 VDO 323 095 H2O out of engine, before cooler >> 1 Aux air 2 3.6 0 69 LM34DZ behind right radiator air >> 2 aux LT 1 1.825 20 490 VDO ? 323 057 Oil Sump, before cooler >> 3 RT fuel 0.572 511 756 SW F-385C Right Outboard tank >> 4 oil temp 3.219 20 445 90 VDO 323 095 Oil into engine, after cooler >> 5 LT fuel 0.784 511 828 SW F-385B Left Outboard tank >> 6 aux air 3 >> 7 aux LT 2 3.114 20 446 VDO 323 095 H2O into engine, after cooler >> 8 oil press 9.436 0 55 25 95 VDO 360 086D Oil into engine, after cooler >> & filter >> 9 H2O press 32.211 0 88 21 VDO 360 043 Coolant swirl bottle >> 10 aux air 1 8.105 0 176 LM34DZ behind left radiator air >> 11 OAT 8.666 0 439 LM34DZ under right wing root >> 12 fuel press 13.7 0 99 VDO 360 086 fuel rail loop >> 13 mixture 5.119 0 0 >> 14 air speed 10.008 0 46 45 200 >> 15 altitude 3.598 -50 7542 >> 16 CHT 1 0.454 0 J type TC fuel filter/water seperator >> 17 CHT 2 0.454 0 J type TC MOCAL oil inlet >> 18 CHT 3 0.454 0 J type TC MOCAL H2O inlet >> 19 CHT 4 0.454 0 J type TC various, currently cowl air out >> 20 EGT 1 1.046 0 950 K type TC Rotor #1 exhaust >> 21 EGT 2 1.046 0 950 K type TC Rotor #2 exhaust >> 22 EGT 3 1.046 0 950 K type TC TIT, turbo inlet >> 23 EGT 4 1.046 0 500 K type TC exhaust pipe 30" downstream of turbo >> 24 MAP 13.639 30.029 371 >> 25 voltage 6.277 10 0 130 155 >> The temp sensor that is in the oil sump (aux LT 1,channel 2) has far >> different cal data as the other VDO temp sensors. I'm not sure where I g= ot >> it from and it has no markings on it, but it's ohmic range matches the >> published data for a VDO 323 057 (max 150C), so I'm assuming that is wha= t >> it is, but take that one with a measure of skepticism. It calibrated fin= e >> so I'm using it for now, but my next order from ACS will include a new V= DO >> 323 095, to match the others. >> >> Todd >> >> Todd Bartrim >> >> On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 4:42 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Hi there Todd >>> I=E2=80=99d be very interested in the settings though I have an EM3 and= I=E2=80=99m not >>> sure of the difference between models 2 and 3. >>> Do you have all seperate senders for the Em2 and Dynon? >>> >>> Steve Izett >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > On 23 Jun 2018, at 5:33 pm, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> > >>> > Ok, as I can never leave well enough alone, I took another look at >>> this. >>> > First as soon as I took a moment I realized that the J&K >>> thermocouple would be real easy to calibrate and convert to metric. >>> > I used a Fluke temperature calibrator with a millivolt output to >>> simulate the TC"s. Worked like a charm. >>> > I tried to use the same calibrator to simulate the variable >>> resistance of the VDO probes, but they are thermistors which are very >>> non-linear, so even with the tables it was a challenge. >>> > So I brought home a Fluke 9009 dual dry block temperature >>> calibrator. Good for -20=C2=B0C up to 350=C2=B0C at the same time (sepa= rate temp >>> wells). >>> > That made it easy, fast and very accurate. >>> > However, the one that I'm worried about is the OAT as this one is >>> also used to calculate TAS, HP, and "other readings". >>> > Now I believe I can correct the TAS by calibrating the scale factor o= n >>> the airspeed in flight against the TAS on my Dynon. >>> > HP is an arbitrary number anyways based on what I think my max HP >>> should be. I think I can tweak that factor as well to get it back to wh= at I >>> think it should be. And if I ever meet a Dyno I'll be sure to try to >>> calibrate it properly. >>> > But the manual also mentions "other readings" without details. >>> > So I've put in an email to Tracy. >>> > If it turns out to be important, I can always put this one back and >>> just ignore the OAT. (Its also on the Dynon) >>> > So if any of you metric blokes down under would like to do this, I >>> can post all the parameters which you can input to your own EM2 and it = will >>> get you close. >>> > For very accurate calibration you would have to tweak them a bit >>> using a temperature calibrator. >>> > >>> > Todd >>> > >>> > On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 00:46 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com, < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> > Hi Andrew; >>> > I haven't spent much further time on the metric conversion. I think >>> it wouldn't be as simple as I hoped. It was fairly straight forward to >>> convert the fuel level to litres and most of the temp measurements shou= ld >>> be almost as easy, but the K & J thermocouples have different raw data, >>> that I don't believe would be easy to convert. And then some of the >>> calculated parameters will likely be adversely affected as well. Probab= ly >>> not impossible, but first, I just don't have the time and second, I wou= ld >>> probably have to be bugging Tracy a lot for info and he's busy being >>> retired in the mountains of Colorado where he seems to be online only >>> occasionally. >>> > I have however longed for a data-logger which the early EM2 didn't >>> have (I have #003). With the increasing popularity of hobby >>> microcontrollers I can get a Ardurino microcontrollers for $35 and a >>> datalogger for it for $6, so I just asked Tracy about the possibility o= f >>> harvesting data from the EM2. >>> > However for a few other reasons, I'm considering that next time >>> someone on the list is selling an EM3 from an abandoned project, I migh= t >>> buy it for an upgrade. I think there was one recently but it was bought= up >>> right away. >>> > >>> > Todd Bartrim >>> > >>> > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:58 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au = < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> > Todd, did you ever get the EM2 recalibrated to metric? I never >>> attemped this as doing so usually gives me quite a few hours work to ge= t >>> back to a working system. I used Tracy=E2=80=99s factory calibration in= the EM2 as >>> the base to calibrate my efis, which is in metric. It is a minor >>> inconvienience to do the mental arithmetric when comparing instruments,= but >>> would be interesting to know if you succeeded. >>> > -- >>> > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag >>> > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline. >>> net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >> >> -- > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag > --00000000000012cb76056f577f1a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I haven't touched the airspeed cal yet so it is still = in mph. Those numbers for anything other than temp and pressure are still s= tock numbers from Tracy. I converted the temps only to metric. The pressure= I left in PSI, but calibrated them only due to sensor inaccuracies.
= =C2=A0 I always have the Dynon in knots and I recall that the comparison (a= fter conversion) between the 2 always seemed close. Since I have changed th= e EM2 OAT to Celsius, I expect that the EM2 true airspeed will be inaccurat= e now so once I get flying again and get the important stuff out of the way= (like learning to fly a taildragger), I'll play with the airspeed cali= bration using my Dynon as a standard and I'll see if I can get them to = match in Knots. I'll post that info then.
=C2=A0 Canadian avi= ation is an odd mix of metric and imperial measurements with speeds reporte= d in knots, visibility in statute miles,
altimeter setting in &qu= ot;Hg, station pressure in millibars, altitude in feet but temperature/dew = point is always in Celsius.
=C2=A0 I suppose it is like that in m= ost of the world outside of the USA.
I was 10 when Canada made th= e switch so while I understand both systems and at work as an instrument me= chanic I deal exclusively in metric, I do have an odd mix of preferred meas= urements units myself. I prefer psi instead of kPa, but C over F, but speed= and distance, I could care less. But metric is always easier when doing ca= lculations, so the sooner we can all have a common standard the better.=C2= =A0
I have noticed in recent years that industrial instruments fr= om the USA have now switched to metric, which simplifies my job. Previously= we had a mix of European instruments in metric, but US instruments in impe= rial or standard which also confused the issue with volume (why did the US = need their own gallon?). Furlongs per Fortnight! :-)

Todd...=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0is killing mosquitoes akin to killing fellow = flyers?????

Todd Bartrim

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 3:23 PM, Andrew Mart= in andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Thanks Todd. This is very good inf= o for making the EM2 just that bit more user friendly for me. Is your airsp= eed cal in mph or knots?
Andrew
<= div class=3D"h5">

On Su= n, 24 Jun 2018 at 5:59 am, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wro= te:
Below is my EM2 calibration da= ta table. I hope it comes through to the list OK, otherwise I'll post a= link.
The only Dynon I have is the D10A, which is just flight instrument= s, so other than sharing a pitot probe there is nothing common. The Dynon h= as it's own OAT sensor which is connected through the EDC magnetometer = (electronic compass)

sensor typeVDO 323 095LM34DZaux air 1= 5.119= 950EGT 4<= td style=3D"overflow:hidden;padding:0px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1p= x solid rgb(204,204,204)">exhaust pipe 30" downstream of turbo
EM2 Calibration Data
Ch. #FunctionScale FactorZero OffsetSensor OffsetLow LimitHi Limitlocation=
0H2O temp3.152447100H2O out = of engine, before cooler
1Aux air 23.6069behind right = radiator air
2aux LT 11.82520490VDO ? 323 057Oil Sump, be= fore cooler
3RT fuel0.572511756SW F-385CRight Outboard tank<= /td>
4oil temp3.2192044590VDO 323 095Oil into e= ngine, after cooler
5LT fuel0.78451182= 8SW F-385BLeft Outboar= d tank
6aux air 3
aux LT 23.11420= 446V= DO 323 095H2O into engine, after cooler
oil press9.4360= 552595VDO 360 086DOil into engine, after cooler & filter
9H2O press32.= 21108821VDO= 360 043Coolant swirl bottle
108.1050176= LM34DZbehind left radiator air
11OAT8.66= 60439LM34DZunder right wing root
12= fuel press13.7099VDO 360 086fuel rail loop
13mixture00<= /td>
14air speed04645200
15altitude3.598-507542<= /td>
16CHT 10.4540J= type TCfuel filter/water seperator
17= CHT 20.4540J type TCMOCAL oil inlet
18CHT 30.4540J type TCMOCAL H2O inlet
19CHT 40.4540J type TCvarious, currently cowl air out
20EGT 11.0460950K type TCRotor #1 exhaust
21EGT 21.0460950K type TCRotor #2 exha= ust
22EGT 31.0460K type TCTIT, turbo inlet
231.0460500K type TC
24= MAP13.63930.029371
25volta= ge6.277100130155

The temp sensor that is in the oil sump (aux LT 1,channe= l 2) has far different cal data as the other VDO temp sensors. I'm not = sure where I got it from and it has no markings on it, but it's ohmic r= ange matches the published data for a VDO 323 057 (max 150C), so I'm as= suming that is what it is, but take that one with a measure of skepticism. = It calibrated fine so I'm using it for now, but my next order from ACS = will include a new VDO 323 095, to match the others.

T= odd

Todd Bartrim

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 4:42 AM, Stephen Ize= tt stephen.ize= tt@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wro= te:
Hi there Todd
I=E2=80=99d be very interested in the settings though I have an EM3 and I= =E2=80=99m not sure of the difference between models 2 and 3.
Do you have all seperate senders for the Em2 and Dynon?

Steve Izett




> On 23 Jun 2018, at 5:33 pm, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&g= t; wrote:
>
> Ok, as I can never leave well enough alone, I took another look at thi= s.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0First as soon as I took a moment I realized that the J&= ;K thermocouple would be real easy to calibrate and convert to metric.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0I used a Fluke temperature calibrator with a millivolt out= put to simulate the TC"s. Worked like a charm.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0I tried to use the same calibrator to simulate the variabl= e resistance of the VDO probes, but they are thermistors which are very non= -linear, so even with the tables it was a challenge.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0So I brought home a Fluke 9009 dual dry block temperature = calibrator. Good for -20=C2=B0C up to 350=C2=B0C at the same time (separate= temp wells).
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0That made it easy, fast and very accurate.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0However, the one that I'm worried about is the OAT as = this one is also used to calculate TAS, HP, and "other readings".=
> Now I believe I can correct the TAS by calibrating the scale factor on= the airspeed in flight against the TAS on my Dynon.
> HP is an arbitrary number anyways based on what I think my max HP shou= ld be. I think I can tweak that factor as well to get it back to what I thi= nk it should be. And if I ever meet a Dyno I'll be sure to try to calib= rate it properly.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0But the manual also mentions "other readings" wi= thout details.
> So I've put in an email to Tracy.
> If it turns out to be important, I can always put this one back and ju= st ignore the OAT. (Its also on the Dynon)
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0So if any of you metric blokes down under would like to do= this, I can post all the parameters which you can input to your own EM2 an= d it will get you close.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0For very accurate calibration you would have to tweak them= a bit using a temperature calibrator.
>
> Todd
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 00:46 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&g= t; wrote:
> Hi Andrew;
>=C2=A0 I haven't spent much further time on the metric conversion. = I think it wouldn't be as simple as I hoped. It was fairly straight for= ward to convert the fuel level to litres and most of the temp measurements = should be almost as easy, but the K & J thermocouples have different ra= w data, that I don't believe would be easy to convert. And then some of= the calculated parameters will likely be adversely affected as well. Proba= bly not impossible, but first, I just don't have the time and second, I= would probably have to be bugging Tracy a lot for info and he's busy b= eing retired in the mountains of Colorado where he seems to be online only = occasionally.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have however longed for a data-logger which the early E= M2 didn't have (I have #003). With the increasing popularity of hobby m= icrocontrollers I can get a Ardurino microcontrollers for $35 and a datalog= ger for it for $6, so I just asked Tracy about the possibility of harvestin= g data from the EM2.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0However for a few other reasons, I'm considering that = next time someone on the list is selling an EM3 from an abandoned project, = I might buy it for an upgrade. I think there was one recently but it was bo= ught up right away.
>
> Todd Bartrim
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:58 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancair= online.net> wrote:
> Todd, did you ever get the EM2 recalibrated to metric? I never attempe= d this as doing so usually gives me quite a few hours work to get back to a= working system. I used Tracy=E2=80=99s factory calibration in the EM2 as t= he base to calibrate my efis, which is in metric. It is a minor inconvienie= nce to do the mental arithmetric when comparing instruments, but would be i= nteresting to know if you succeeded.
> --
> Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag
>


--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag

--00000000000012cb76056f577f1a--