X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=HLeBLclv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=BfGBKlfVCZkr1ZEMvOwMnA==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=xXDCcK6TKBsA:10 a=7mUfYlMuFuIA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=WRLWDysEzzOrgtOa8BoA:9 a=mRmSK1XbbQUE5mAV:21 a=q7jaA5-UEODrnLU8:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=r8Fp46LvsvX03zM7mCwA:9 a=nYydXvGgd1scAFpl:21 a=2sQ6ig9os4eRCsrS:21 a=4dycOW1VCkzIJwW8:21 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com" Received: from mail-ed1-f46.google.com ([209.85.208.46] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.5) with ESMTPS id 11295119 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 17:59:20 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.208.46; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-ed1-f46.google.com with SMTP id t3-v6so3171364eds.3 for ; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:59:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=u+/d/BcOjJrA5EowANQUJjCskRctrZ15hChA26ec2nI=; b=MFNKdqO7EtrWipvuo7WcOnS44i3b4lXJDlryKYy+XtSk82tzq9q2JZMbekne0AXhMK mHzwlhaWFrXr+gw6OWWIobotuL4q/16XGXNnCa6nOLOG+oisEAWTX5/SRWy/pDbV1Wiv bsDMygsFzvS5XE2ucShHU/mpZNb9KcQVTqbu+ojCFXOHMm7DdUQv7KJOu2lvhicPIV+n IR18DlNVv2F+cdaSPUGfkjNpLiDn3vHD2CW/Jr5RE9V4IJWAG/IA2cjL8sH/vy3RRGjL N3vH6rQlO8aPiVbuKq2jqLA0P/HRcfxW9d2nXzExozJNGCCjogIZ6rkQhveaeuKo7QCn YmUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=u+/d/BcOjJrA5EowANQUJjCskRctrZ15hChA26ec2nI=; b=IPC+YDHdizSanfMNpscfUP0fb7S0oyYe+UT74E9YSOForiPKeeAHaEQYRcqN5ViyFK 4xAsa7loLo/HAhz3CX5Cwl+Od+iqgviJ4YqG6eWbbPPvdryiAe+FEftPIV9a9EO4RNAU YyFqLkKvmDs+LxyZzJsgt7WO0eXauwKA5NPln3+eNHarftrvGOL838k+XmjUuQY9FhSj RMRPOuK96sAHT02MScTA/R4xUrRolnIHmwaNJ9ynVOOjHdnPVkfivDB5HQSeu70BDtVr qWPiBefvOL3syqv2h9cw8HpFwdhGz9vjYBqkaorIZ8PCpSb1ogMc8KYHBnbC3Sp+quxW bQ7A== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E1v/g0O4GXO0lBO8mLvJ1xaa4cgOGPK0aBQ/SeVrm5HI6sSkKCf uWCGuTIUMfRfhBHBHASpz8Vy5zeiV/SE/8ALAsDX X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJAuqdWd8hkDnGZ6Gyxl9w20t6aHQhrOyjjbE91LykYKcQjDLaourFfVQye6FJBKndnp2Fddy2LGysMUaizkd4= X-Received: by 2002:a50:b6d8:: with SMTP id f24-v6mr2481886ede.147.1529791144005; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:59:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a50:8c94:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:59:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:59:03 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Re. Rescaling the EM2 to metric To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b812fb056f56417f" --000000000000b812fb056f56417f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Below is my EM2 calibration data table. I hope it comes through to the list OK, otherwise I'll post a link. The only Dynon I have is the D10A, which is just flight instruments, so other than sharing a pitot probe there is nothing common. The Dynon has it's own OAT sensor which is connected through the EDC magnetometer (electronic compass) EM2 Calibration Data Ch. # Function Scale Factor Zero Offset Sensor Offset Low Limit Hi Limit se= nsor type location 0 H2O temp 3.152 20 447 100 VDO 323 095 H2O out of engine, before cooler 1 Aux air 2 3.6 0 69 LM34DZ behind right radiator air 2 aux LT 1 1.825 20 490 VDO ? 323 057 Oil Sump, before cooler 3 RT fuel 0.572 511 756 SW F-385C Right Outboard tank 4 oil temp 3.219 20 445 90 VDO 323 095 Oil into engine, after cooler 5 LT fuel 0.784 511 828 SW F-385B Left Outboard tank 6 aux air 3 7 aux LT 2 3.114 20 446 VDO 323 095 H2O into engine, after cooler 8 oil press 9.436 0 55 25 95 VDO 360 086D Oil into engine, after cooler & filter 9 H2O press 32.211 0 88 21 VDO 360 043 Coolant swirl bottle 10 aux air 1 8.105 0 176 LM34DZ behind left radiator air 11 OAT 8.666 0 439 LM34DZ under right wing root 12 fuel press 13.7 0 99 VDO 360 086 fuel rail loop 13 mixture 5.119 0 0 14 air speed 10.008 0 46 45 200 15 altitude 3.598 -50 7542 16 CHT 1 0.454 0 J type TC fuel filter/water seperator 17 CHT 2 0.454 0 J type TC MOCAL oil inlet 18 CHT 3 0.454 0 J type TC MOCAL H2O inlet 19 CHT 4 0.454 0 J type TC various, currently cowl air out 20 EGT 1 1.046 0 950 K type TC Rotor #1 exhaust 21 EGT 2 1.046 0 950 K type TC Rotor #2 exhaust 22 EGT 3 1.046 0 950 K type TC TIT, turbo inlet 23 EGT 4 1.046 0 500 K type TC exhaust pipe 30" downstream of turbo 24 MAP 13.639 30.029 371 25 voltage 6.277 10 0 130 155 The temp sensor that is in the oil sump (aux LT 1,channel 2) has far different cal data as the other VDO temp sensors. I'm not sure where I got it from and it has no markings on it, but it's ohmic range matches the published data for a VDO 323 057 (max 150C), so I'm assuming that is what it is, but take that one with a measure of skepticism. It calibrated fine so I'm using it for now, but my next order from ACS will include a new VDO 323 095, to match the others. Todd Todd Bartrim On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 4:42 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Hi there Todd > I=E2=80=99d be very interested in the settings though I have an EM3 and I= =E2=80=99m not > sure of the difference between models 2 and 3. > Do you have all seperate senders for the Em2 and Dynon? > > Steve Izett > > > > > > On 23 Jun 2018, at 5:33 pm, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > > Ok, as I can never leave well enough alone, I took another look at this= . > > First as soon as I took a moment I realized that the J&K thermocouple > would be real easy to calibrate and convert to metric. > > I used a Fluke temperature calibrator with a millivolt output to > simulate the TC"s. Worked like a charm. > > I tried to use the same calibrator to simulate the variable resistanc= e > of the VDO probes, but they are thermistors which are very non-linear, so > even with the tables it was a challenge. > > So I brought home a Fluke 9009 dual dry block temperature calibrator. > Good for -20=C2=B0C up to 350=C2=B0C at the same time (separate temp well= s). > > That made it easy, fast and very accurate. > > However, the one that I'm worried about is the OAT as this one is als= o > used to calculate TAS, HP, and "other readings". > > Now I believe I can correct the TAS by calibrating the scale factor on > the airspeed in flight against the TAS on my Dynon. > > HP is an arbitrary number anyways based on what I think my max HP shoul= d > be. I think I can tweak that factor as well to get it back to what I thin= k > it should be. And if I ever meet a Dyno I'll be sure to try to calibrate = it > properly. > > But the manual also mentions "other readings" without details. > > So I've put in an email to Tracy. > > If it turns out to be important, I can always put this one back and jus= t > ignore the OAT. (Its also on the Dynon) > > So if any of you metric blokes down under would like to do this, I ca= n > post all the parameters which you can input to your own EM2 and it will g= et > you close. > > For very accurate calibration you would have to tweak them a bit usin= g > a temperature calibrator. > > > > Todd > > > > On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 00:46 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com, < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Hi Andrew; > > I haven't spent much further time on the metric conversion. I think it > wouldn't be as simple as I hoped. It was fairly straight forward to conve= rt > the fuel level to litres and most of the temp measurements should be almo= st > as easy, but the K & J thermocouples have different raw data, that I don'= t > believe would be easy to convert. And then some of the calculated > parameters will likely be adversely affected as well. Probably not > impossible, but first, I just don't have the time and second, I would > probably have to be bugging Tracy a lot for info and he's busy being > retired in the mountains of Colorado where he seems to be online only > occasionally. > > I have however longed for a data-logger which the early EM2 didn't > have (I have #003). With the increasing popularity of hobby > microcontrollers I can get a Ardurino microcontrollers for $35 and a > datalogger for it for $6, so I just asked Tracy about the possibility of > harvesting data from the EM2. > > However for a few other reasons, I'm considering that next time > someone on the list is selling an EM3 from an abandoned project, I might > buy it for an upgrade. I think there was one recently but it was bought u= p > right away. > > > > Todd Bartrim > > > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:58 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Todd, did you ever get the EM2 recalibrated to metric? I never attemped > this as doing so usually gives me quite a few hours work to get back to a > working system. I used Tracy=E2=80=99s factory calibration in the EM2 as = the base > to calibrate my efis, which is in metric. It is a minor inconvienience to > do the mental arithmetric when comparing instruments, but would be > interesting to know if you succeeded. > > -- > > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net: > 81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --000000000000b812fb056f56417f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Below is my EM2 calibration data table. I hope it comes through to the lis= t OK, otherwise I'll post a link.
The only Dynon I have is the D10A, = which is just flight instruments, so other than sharing a pitot probe there= is nothing common. The Dynon has it's own OAT sensor which is connecte= d through the EDC magnetometer (electronic compass)
<= font face=3D"Calibri">
sensor typeVDO 323 095LM34DZaux air 1= 5.119= 950EGT 4<= td style=3D"overflow:hidden;padding:0px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;border:1p= x solid rgb(204,204,204)">exhaust pipe 30" downstream of turbo
EM2 Calibration Data
Ch. #FunctionScale FactorZero OffsetSensor OffsetLow LimitHi Limitlocation=
0H2O temp3.152447100H2O out = of engine, before cooler
1Aux air 23.6069behind right = radiator air
2aux LT 11.82520490VDO ? 323 057Oil Sump, be= fore cooler
3RT fuel0.572511756SW F-385CRight Outboard tank<= /td>
4oil temp3.2192044590VDO 323 095Oil into e= ngine, after cooler
5LT fuel0.78451182= 8SW F-385BLeft Outboar= d tank
6aux air 3
aux LT 23.11420= 446V= DO 323 095H2O into engine, after cooler
oil press9.4360= 552595VDO 360 086DOil into engine, after cooler & filter
9H2O press32.= 21108821VDO= 360 043Coolant swirl bottle
108.1050176= LM34DZbehind left radiator air
11OAT8.66= 60439LM34DZunder right wing root
12= fuel press13.7099VDO 360 086fuel rail loop
13mixture00<= /td>
14air speed04645200
15altitude3.598-507542<= /td>
16CHT 10.4540J= type TCfuel filter/water seperator
17= CHT 20.4540J type TCMOCAL oil inlet
18CHT 30.4540J type TCMOCAL H2O inlet
19CHT 40.4540J type TCvarious, currently cowl air out
20EGT 11.0460950K type TCRotor #1 exhaust
21EGT 21.0460950K type TCRotor #2 exha= ust
22EGT 31.0460K type TCTIT, turbo inlet
231.0460500K type TC
24= MAP13.63930.029371
25volta= ge6.277100130155

The temp sensor that is in the oil sump (aux LT 1,channe= l 2) has far different cal data as the other VDO temp sensors. I'm not = sure where I got it from and it has no markings on it, but it's ohmic r= ange matches the published data for a VDO 323 057 (max 150C), so I'm as= suming that is what it is, but take that one with a measure of skepticism. = It calibrated fine so I'm using it for now, but my next order from ACS = will include a new VDO 323 095, to match the others.

T= odd

<= div>
Todd Bartrim

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 4:42 AM, Stephen Ize= tt stephen.izett@gmail.com <= span dir=3D"ltr"><flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi there Todd
I=E2=80=99d be very interested in the settings though I have an EM3 and I= =E2=80=99m not sure of the difference between models 2 and 3.
Do you have all seperate senders for the Em2 and Dynon?

Steve Izett




> On 23 Jun 2018, at 5:33 pm, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Ok, as I can never leave well enough alone, I took another look at thi= s.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0First as soon as I took a moment I realized that the J&= ;K thermocouple would be real easy to calibrate and convert to metric.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0I used a Fluke temperature calibrator with a millivolt out= put to simulate the TC"s. Worked like a charm.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0I tried to use the same calibrator to simulate the variabl= e resistance of the VDO probes, but they are thermistors which are very non= -linear, so even with the tables it was a challenge.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0So I brought home a Fluke 9009 dual dry block temperature = calibrator. Good for -20=C2=B0C up to 350=C2=B0C at the same time (separate= temp wells).
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0That made it easy, fast and very accurate.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0However, the one that I'm worried about is the OAT as = this one is also used to calculate TAS, HP, and "other readings".=
> Now I believe I can correct the TAS by calibrating the scale factor on= the airspeed in flight against the TAS on my Dynon.
> HP is an arbitrary number anyways based on what I think my max HP shou= ld be. I think I can tweak that factor as well to get it back to what I thi= nk it should be. And if I ever meet a Dyno I'll be sure to try to calib= rate it properly.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0But the manual also mentions "other readings" wi= thout details.
> So I've put in an email to Tracy.
> If it turns out to be important, I can always put this one back and ju= st ignore the OAT. (Its also on the Dynon)
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0So if any of you metric blokes down under would like to do= this, I can post all the parameters which you can input to your own EM2 an= d it will get you close.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0For very accurate calibration you would have to tweak them= a bit using a temperature calibrator.
>
> Todd
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018, 00:46 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> Hi Andrew;
>=C2=A0 I haven't spent much further time on the metric conversion. = I think it wouldn't be as simple as I hoped. It was fairly straight for= ward to convert the fuel level to litres and most of the temp measurements = should be almost as easy, but the K & J thermocouples have different ra= w data, that I don't believe would be easy to convert. And then some of= the calculated parameters will likely be adversely affected as well. Proba= bly not impossible, but first, I just don't have the time and second, I= would probably have to be bugging Tracy a lot for info and he's busy b= eing retired in the mountains of Colorado where he seems to be online only = occasionally.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have however longed for a data-logger which the early E= M2 didn't have (I have #003). With the increasing popularity of hobby m= icrocontrollers I can get a Ardurino microcontrollers for $35 and a datalog= ger for it for $6, so I just asked Tracy about the possibility of harvestin= g data from the EM2.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0However for a few other reasons, I'm considering that = next time someone on the list is selling an EM3 from an abandoned project, = I might buy it for an upgrade. I think there was one recently but it was bo= ught up right away.
>
> Todd Bartrim
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:58 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> Todd, did you ever get the EM2 recalibrated to metric? I never attempe= d this as doing so usually gives me quite a few hours work to get back to a= working system. I used Tracy=E2=80=99s factory calibration in the EM2 as t= he base to calibrate my efis, which is in metric. It is a minor inconvienie= nce to do the mental arithmetric when comparing instruments, but would be i= nteresting to know if you succeeded.
> --
> Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag
>


--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--000000000000b812fb056f56417f--