X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=HLeBLclv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=9zjvAxY1YOi6wZYuJazVXA==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=K7ySfSCCDxUA:10 a=7mUfYlMuFuIA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=vggBfdFIAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=KLEhtHREca6c4pJgDGEA:9 a=YyYykbSypuO_htkI:21 a=eThi8pNPGyK2z8Fd:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=Plnyg2kpYScfRwvEfj0A:9 a=c5kikA2PrbMnMChR:21 a=RS8ODcBCOWcyDtQp:21 a=dkpYm1lN-LFT1RPM:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com" Received: from mail-yb0-f180.google.com ([209.85.213.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.5) with ESMTPS id 11258108 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 08:00:56 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.213.180; envelope-from=mattboiteau@gmail.com Received: by mail-yb0-f180.google.com with SMTP id h141-v6so2125649ybg.4 for ; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 05:00:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=b0afRgmAI5WkRX1iJjsz9FBV6g7vkZvMCR+HXxTlppM=; b=k0Yy8yB171Qg/3dhkVh5MrdRdkqGrS1KH6DjR5CnC4Npr7xWUf9oSOffp16rkBH29X FNa9fHyWe8OdJfDI+YdQIBQYlltU9VCjcAvgqofNgSgwC3svYtuIT/142godUS1rVwc8 f2eO4+iVZ2pt7kSAHlOjvMR0hWJAbB1r53jIZaOXpPydLRNgnpURED9/wAm772gjSNoD HnfMDaIbttOSAdtXrJ66poeCpuOj9LjS2uncgA2wm/jL+ET14Hy2QV7H5wvDF2gExkVV OoYjs/VrWCStbAa14uYfDyAcdf+zSyaGxsPhxbrZUwNwShl4o8qSKYNYQDuU6a2KlLdF HbVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=b0afRgmAI5WkRX1iJjsz9FBV6g7vkZvMCR+HXxTlppM=; b=qrsIEeKH6RsfQkPq3Zhzo+6EgHW4U51coaZEvQpmRdJTaESodJGHvvR+ONVb80E8Jh Ibl2uNFJ7t2RhQqLrJHWgdA6ABdcZjCZhDpx7cPAEq2TjmnvpvFeR9l8enkMPt/owp9F ZrFUtUId1GJ5BsJzCRC/lwjgMD5w0w1+HsczqwZ4oXnljPbUbo7ZJRcJxI7faov2EPzh hRaD4uZXo1aJ57ktOXq6PdwA91t18CjCvviiIxqMr33zWekcgIL0q+QxkETzYhs+B+ix DJGS9d2jhRrcpovXySLWmz3BtRzIKuMC1FHtN9z4yqmQ4hYs4EQ0ZHUYSZRyjiuqDEuG 9JVQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E12xVz+p1kQIU5mh/+7FnJ+mzVpuFkWBg93QjXyL7a2ToEmi8xh az+oA/yLD82xT82r3/isWk1X+DqLxNBuN6/AJu4x0A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJQAjQ8eHtAMcAg+4cUfHv3/ijm3DmR+aTjgkKJYNX167mlZUZpWZQdbIxs1YwM1nPAdqBU8AgjXDhr3PjTxek= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:143:: with SMTP id c3-v6mr1150225ybp.377.1528977637547; Thu, 14 Jun 2018 05:00:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 08:00:25 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: alternator To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f4a518056e98d8d8" --000000000000f4a518056e98d8d8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I'd highly advise NOT to go electric water pump in our application. The flow rates just can't compare once you're over 4000-5000rpm, and specially for us being 70+% throttle most of the time. Great for drag racing /street though, to save 12-15hp and use 9-14amps. - Matt Boiteau On Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 04:46 alex alex.molteno@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > There's also electric water pumps to look at, I think Neil already has one > on his install if I remember correctly > > Alex Molteno > > > On Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 04:22 Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> I'm sitting on the fence with that answer.... >> >> If we loose our belt, we don't have a water pump, which means we are >> landing asap anyways. Certainly we have enough battery juice, that will >> last longer then the engine over heating. With these new PWM alternators >> (P-D style regulator, which the RX8 is), they don't have internal >> regulators to go bad like old style alternators. >> >> I'm really not worried about a backup alt, but that's just me. Maybe >> 35amps is enough for a primary alt though. Then it makes things interesting. >> >> >> >> - Matt Boiteau >> >> On 6/13/2018 10:27:47 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >> Todd, >> >> Main measurement is the ID of the stator pack. I have to >> have an ID of 2 5/8 inches to clear my cushion drive, Then with >> modification I may have 1 3/4 inches space between the plate and the >> cushion drive plate. Will have to measure. The harley seems a good price >> compared to the Racemate. Neil. >> >> On 6/14/2018 11:29 AM, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com wrote: >> >> Hi Neil; >> First, my apologies for not answering your earlier question sooner, but >> it's been a busy week. >> I'm not certain which dimension that you were looking for, but with it in >> place it is difficult to measure anything but the rotor cup. >> Those measurements are 6.3" OD on the cup and after I machined a little >> off the face edge of the cup I was left with 1.35" thickness. Looking back >> at my report it looks like I had to remove a total of about 0.156 off both >> sides of the cup to make it fit so it was probably about 1.5" thick >> originally. At the time I did this I had detailed notes on every possible >> dimension, but that was some years back. >> Not knowing enough about your PSRU, I can't say for certain which >> would be a good fit, but from what I can see of the Racemate, while it is a >> good solution for the purpose in which it was intended as a belt driven >> waterpump alt, I think if I was to do it again, I would not hesitate to use >> the Harley style again, rather than pay extra to modify something that is >> well designed for the other end of the engine. >> But I would not buy it from the local Harley shop ever again as I paid >> far too much for it. I would use the Compufire #55540 kit with rotor, >> stator & regulator which can be bought at Amazon.com right now for $197.64 >> usd. >> >> https://www.amazon.com/Compu-Fire-32-amp-Charging-System-55540/product-reviews/B000GUWM5K >> This would be your most cost effective way to add it in and apparently >> Compufire is manufactured in the USA. (for those worried that it is a cheap >> Chinese knock-off) >> As far as machining costs, once again I do not know the details of your >> design, but with mine the greatest difficulty was in doing it as a one off >> design. But if I was to have been doing a bunch of them, I don't think the >> additional machining would be too onerous, but would not be able to put a >> dollar amount on that work. And of course, outside of machining and parts >> costs, you've got to cut yourself a little something as profit for this >> venture. >> Now with that said, to answer your current question if we think it >> would be worth it, I would say yes. I've been doing a fair bit of ground >> testing for unrelated issues but as I disconnected my main alternator in >> order to access oil lines, I've been running on the back-up PM alt only and >> it is working flawlessly. Even with both working I can switch seamlessly >> from the main to the back-up with only a slight volt drop of 0.4 due to >> different voltage regulators. >> It seems like a lot of money, but in my opinion it is better money >> spent than on a back-up lightweight battery. Of course I won't be a >> customer since I already have it and my opinion is biased, but while I >> could list more than a handful of things that I wouldn't do again, this >> isn't one of them. >> I would do it again in a heartbeat. >> >> Todd >> >> Todd Bartrim >> >> On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Group, >>> >>> Have done some investigation into mounting another >>> generator on the cushion drive and I think it is possible if I use the >>> Racemate rather than the harley. Cost appears to be similar but the >>> dimensions of the Racement seem more adaptable. I will have to alter the >>> cushion drive to fit, but that is simply an annoyance at this stage. >>> Guessing the cost involved it looks like $350 for the generator and >>> regulator, plus possibly an additional $200 for machining making an >>> additional $550 USD for the generator. >>> >>> IS this cost effective?? You only can answer this for me. The >>> generator puts out 35 amps. >>> >>> What say you all? >>> >>> Regards. Neil >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >> >> >> --000000000000f4a518056e98d8d8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd highly advise NOT to go electric water pump in ou= r application. The flow rates just can't compare once you're over 4= 000-5000rpm, and specially for us being 70+% throttle most of the time.
Great for drag racing /street tho= ugh, to save 12-15hp and use 9-14amps.

- Matt Boiteau

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 04:= 46 alex alex.molteno@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net> wrote:
There's also electric water pumps to look at, I think Neil alr= eady has one on his install if I remember correctly

Alex Molteno


=
On Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 04:22 Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gm= ail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I'm sitting on the fence with t= hat answer....

If we loose our belt, we don't have a water pump,= which means we are landing asap anyways. Certainly we have enough battery = juice, that will last longer then the engine over heating. With these new P= WM alternators (P-D style regulator, which the RX8 is), they don't have= internal regulators to go bad like old style alternators.

I'm r= eally not worried about a backup alt, but that's just me. Maybe 35amps = is enough for a primary alt though. Then it makes things interesting.


- Matt Boiteau

On 6/13/= 2018 10:27:47 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Todd,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Main measurement is the ID of the stator pack.=C2= =A0 I have to have an ID of 2 5/8 inches to clear my cushion drive, Then with modification I may have 1 3/4 inches space between the plate and the cushion drive plate.=C2=A0 Will have to measure.=C2=A0 The ha= rley seems a good price compared to the Racemate.=C2=A0 Neil.


On 6/14/2018 11:29 AM, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Neil;
=C2=A0 First, my apologies for not answering your earlier question sooner, but it's been a busy week.
I'm not certain which dimension that you were looking for, but with it in place it is difficult to measure anything but the rotor cup.
Those measurements are 6.3" OD on the cup and after I machined a little off the face edge of the cup I was left with 1.35" thickness. Looking back at my report it looks like I h= ad to remove a total of about 0.156 off both sides of the cup to make it fit so it was probably about 1.5" thick originally. = At the time I did this I had detailed notes on every possible dimension, but that was some years back.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Not knowing enough about your PSRU, I can't s= ay for certain which would be a good fit, but from what I can see of the Racemate, while it is a good solution for the purpose in which it was intended as a belt driven waterpump alt, I think if I was to do it again, I would not hesitate to use the Harley style again, rather than pay extra to modify something that is well designed for the other end of the engine.
=C2=A0 But I would not buy it from the local Harley shop ever again as I paid far too much for it. I would use the Compufire #55540 kit with rotor, stator & regulator which can be bought at Amazon.com right now for $197.64 usd.
This would be your most cost effective way to add it in and apparently Compufire is manufactured in the USA. (for those worried that it is a cheap Chinese knock-off)
=C2=A0 As far as machining costs, once again I do not know the details of your design, but with mine the greatest difficulty was in doing it as a one off design. But if I was to have been doing a bunch of them, I don't think the additional machining would be too onerous, but would not be able to put a dollar amount on that work. And of course, outside of machining and parts costs, you've got to cut yourself a little something as profit for this venture.
=C2=A0 Now with that said, to answer your current question if = we think it would be worth it, I would say yes. I've been doing = a fair bit of ground testing for unrelated issues but as I disconnected my main alternator in order to access oil lines, I've been running on the back-up PM alt only and it is workin= g flawlessly. Even with both working I can switch seamlessly from the main to the back-up with only a slight volt drop of 0.4 due to different voltage regulators.
=C2=A0 It seems like a lot of money, but in my opinion it is better money spent than on a back-up lightweight battery. Of course I won't be a customer since I already have it and my opinion is biased, but while I could list more than a handful of things that I wouldn't do again, this isn't one of the= m.
=C2=A0 I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Todd

Todd Bartrim

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 4:42 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Group,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Have done s= ome investigation into mounting another generator on the cushion drive and I think it is possible if I use the Racemate rather than the harley.=C2=A0 Cost appears to be similar but the dimensions of the Racement seem more adaptable.=C2=A0 I will have to alter th= e cushion drive to fit, but that is simply an annoyance at this stage.=C2=A0 Guessing the cost involved it looks like $350 for the generator and regulator, plus possibly an additional $200 for machining making an additional $550 USD for the generator.

IS this cost effective??=C2=A0 You only can answer this for me.= =C2=A0 The generator puts out 35 amps.

What say you all?

Regards.=C2=A0 Neil

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/=
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Lis= t.html


=20
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