X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=Q9qQ2M+a c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=HILk0Rxo/DrxjUftkGmnZA==:117 a=bM+Vfa0Ej2nqZ5cADbuAeg==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=7mUfYlMuFuIA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=6Azz6AtYAAAA:20 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ybZZDoGAAAAA:8 a=DmE-kScZAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=-F4pt0RcXGAZQJDq3zUA:9 a=ri7p6-dal9d907_X:21 a=dFXgWXDObBTtP_XU:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=7B9iJPrjIEnnug8DkT0A:9 a=_SqJ-Z56M3vfF8XT:21 a=_YGZcY-xvMpTzqOB:21 a=WV1iM8QB9WMImjUt:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=0RhZnL1DYvcuLYC8JZ5M:22 a=8l0Fykn6q59mmwej6vd0:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-yw0-f176.google.com ([209.85.161.176] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.4) with ESMTPS id 11239755 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 19:53:42 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.176; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-yw0-f176.google.com with SMTP id p129-v6so5788191ywg.7 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 16:53:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=6JQdTsEhCFLOwpcQitwFvAYjUuy+XbhfpeACDlsbVXg=; b=kYsg1e7NJrtOG+jHqkB6IZIGliPWy6m2lkeLdu7I7jawp0z8BVwcn3+jI+lzskNrIY 7nC6EUSefiV1umc80QCNDNzQERzAUwUY1lVB9TD5u+zWCfKSvGHkJAPGd7jY4zm7X45F KZH9b3KKtykkKDbHkytNRq9CeqHlNidqgWAa5ixR6BiW5vpd5CCCI8VvEHHhwjurPIUK 5nPquxRNBXyzgy9wTfcoa/UxdPWZmxf3NlwD/EjtINMfzAjpbcZh4shLekr/jCxlHDxI f7CH71Y3wuCxxjjHvqqdzE1RB6f923/2FrTMqAAtVD//uRMIBsG+ap296GdThY69KRCD xX5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=6JQdTsEhCFLOwpcQitwFvAYjUuy+XbhfpeACDlsbVXg=; b=QiTpXGp9Jg5BL56Iyp1gfIVg9KkGbBOt1HC2w9jDvYzV8jhIdIEwdo1unCTD8sCSiw jIkuHnVpdWHCSeIjOSD+GIIRRLOVqIboBoTIkFBIyXktbBbyO75B/TEj2QT9HKGJYGjm kv+rOoGFfXyWKxi0r9Knw8UxFPHUdneC84cmx+VdWJTS0IlRpFLVBvdHjLrIGnvGTlg6 hCODiPhWEZNy/o0OdBJhU33mmXz7rd1WagKDRFLgbT7Hd+sqc1b0dopQv3CjUCbHSeHU wfb82WTXqB59c+twGG9YA9Fd0diKiexqICcO6B9yxeaxCTwnySAmfJNfzv+S6B4qjhQI fb8g== X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0XQhnlP0pXHiMD0CfpPlp8DykAlPApyGKGDGHdaUzYCLcKDid9 nH9DoiJ7T97yIE+oP6ZxVIS6mw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKIv3yNez5C/rMS3D1jrRlpKXq3495lwr91yMjSZRh9XVt/RJCZYTJYaZaequ/DGADPJj2km+A== X-Received: by 2002:a0d:f981:: with SMTP id j123-v6mr8862036ywf.449.1528674805179; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 16:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.10.217] (mobile-166-170-59-37.mycingular.net. [166.170.59.37]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id b9-v6sm4070971ywe.3.2018.06.10.16.53.23 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 10 Jun 2018 16:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: PSRU To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <4ff3c60b-6a65-b6f6-bcb3-cad5f4becfaa@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 18:54:03 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------AC158ED95B89C8B93BC4DEBD" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 180610-2, 06/10/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------AC158ED95B89C8B93BC4DEBD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Actually, just two places; the prop doesn't turn fast enough to get truly useful current out of those little PM alternators. I do wish it was a little easier to modify the RWS drive in order to install one. With something that would supply 20-25 amps comfortably, the engine could be 'self sufficient' and independent of the airframe's power demands like a traditional a/c engine, and the auto alternator could be the backup. Charlie On 6/10/2018 6:00 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote: > > Todd, > >                Have read your Blog and very impressive. However only > one measurement that is of use -- the thickness of the pack.  Do you > have by any chance the internal measurement of the coil pack?? My > cushion drive has a 2 inch RHS   just where the coil pack would go.  > Without measuring it I would guess a 3 inch  diameter, which may be > too big.  There are 3 places to fit the generator,  On the PSRU, the > back of the prop, and the front of the E shaft.  Now that will get the > "canary" squawking. Regards,  Neil. > > > On 6/9/2018 6:07 PM, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com wrote: >> Hi Neil; >>   It is probably too late for you to consider this in your design >> however I'll throw it out there anyways. >>  A few years ago I modified my RD-1B to allow the installation of a >> stator & rotor to have a back-up PM type of generator between the >> engine and PSRU. >> I've got a few hours of ground running on this and it has run >> flawlessly. It was a big job to retrofit it into my existing PSRU, >> but possibly not be a big deal for you to add as an option on your unit. >> The full write up on how I did it along with parts etc. can be read >> here in a PDF document. >> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9-1Iqfk8J8ncDJTbGRZc3BmdlE/view?usp=sharing >> >> It might be worth considering, as I know that if I was in the market >> for a PSRU, I'd certainly pay extra to have a built-in back-up power >> source. >> >> Todd >> >> Todd Bartrim >> >> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:33 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com >> > > wrote: >> >> Martin, >> >>     There are wins and losses.  Basically in the  AUD market >> there are savings on freight and insurance is possibly >> unnecessary.  However I cop the freight components of parts from >> the USA which is horrendous. The same article cost double to get >> it freighted back from the USA as what it costs from OZ  to the >> US. However that is all my problem, so a quick cost in OZ would >> be around $7000.  I apologise for that cost,  But it is what it >> is.  I am aware that an engine controller costs about half that, >> which all adds to the cost. Regards, /Neil./ >> >> >> On 6/9/2018 10:57 AM, Martin King martin.king@pobox.com >> wrote: >> > Hello Neil > > What will it be in $AUD ? > > On Sat, 9 Jun 2018, 07:42 Neil >> Unger 12348ung@gmail.com > >> >> >> >> >> > wrote: > > Gents, > > I can >> finally announce that I have overcome all hurdles and my PSRU > >> is ready for sale. It is almost a copy of Tracy's so will fit > >> exactly in the same mounting position and mounting holes. It >> differs > to Tracy's in that the cushion drive mounts directly >> onto the E > shaft, so puts no stress onto the flexplate. The >> cushion drive is > from vulcanized rubber and if the rubber >> disintegrates it then > becomes a metal to metal drive which will >> get you to the ground. The > input shaft is a one piece shaft so >> no possibility of the pin > shearing. Ratio is 3.17 ; 1 and the >> planetry housing is machined > from solid to ensure no failures. >> All based on the Ford gears. I > should note a warning to any >> with a ford planetry that having > dismantled 8 of these (48 >> assemblies) I have found 2 sun gears with > one needle roller >> missing from the bearing set. Seems that the > mexicans or >> whoever puts these together is not checking as they go > >> together. This just worries me, but may not make much difference. >> > Prop shaft is on timken taper bearings, so end thrust is not a >> > problem and all lubricated with engine oil. Price for the first >> 5 is > $5500 USD which is slightly discounted due to damage in >> transit of > the alloy cushion drives. Mounting plate is an extra >> and sold by > Randy kempf. Freight is $300 and max insurance I >> can get for another > $200 is $5000 AUD which is $3800 USD. Any >> interested let me or Randy > Kempf know as Randy is my >> distributor for the US market. His web > site is Either >> Rotarpower . net or na73x.wixsite.com/rotarpower >> > >> >> This is breaking news, so > >> the web site has not yet caught up. Also looking at altering the >> > mounting plate as in shifting the starter motor to the bottom >> middle > to remove it from exhaust heat. Any thoughts on this?? >> MY thanks to > Tracy for his assistance who as we all know was >> years ahead of his > time. Neil Unger. > > > -- Homepage: >> http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: > >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > >> oll >> >> > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------------AC158ED95B89C8B93BC4DEBD Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Actually, just two places; the prop doesn't turn fast enough to get truly useful current out of those little PM alternators.

I do wish it was a little easier to modify the RWS drive in order to install one. With something that would supply 20-25 amps comfortably, the engine could be 'self sufficient' and independent of the airframe's power demands like a traditional a/c engine, and the auto alternator could be the backup.

Charlie

On 6/10/2018 6:00 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote:

Todd,

               Have read your Blog and very impressive. However only one measurement that is of use -- the thickness of the pack.  Do you have by any chance the internal measurement of the coil pack?? My cushion drive has a 2 inch RHS   just where the coil pack would go.  Without measuring it I would guess a 3 inch  diameter, which may be too big.  There are 3 places to fit the generator,  On the PSRU, the back of the prop, and the front of the E shaft.  Now that will get the "canary" squawking.  Regards,  Neil.


On 6/9/2018 6:07 PM, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Neil;
  It is probably too late for you to consider this in your design however I'll throw it out there anyways.
 A few years ago I modified my RD-1B to allow the installation of a stator & rotor to have a back-up PM type of generator between the engine and PSRU.
I've got a few hours of ground running on this and it has run flawlessly. It was a big job to retrofit it into my existing PSRU, but possibly not be a big deal for you to add as an option on your unit.
The full write up on how I did it along with parts etc. can be read here in a PDF document.

It might be worth considering, as I know that if I was in the market for a PSRU, I'd certainly pay extra to have a built-in back-up power source.

Todd

Todd Bartrim

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:33 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Martin,

    There are wins and losses.  Basically in the  AUD market there are savings on freight and insurance is possibly unnecessary.  However I cop the freight components of parts from the USA which is horrendous.  The same article cost double to get it freighted back from the USA as what it costs from OZ  to the US.  However that is all my problem, so a quick cost in OZ would be around $7000.  I apologise for that cost,  But it is what it is.  I am aware that an engine controller costs about half that, which all adds to the cost.  Regards, Neil.


On 6/9/2018 10:57 AM, Martin King martin.king@pobox.com wrote:
> Hello Neil > > What will it be in $AUD ? > > On Sat, 9 Jun 2018, 07:42 Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com > <mailto:12348ung@gmail.com> <flyrotary@lancaironline.net > <mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net>> wrote: > > Gents, > > I can finally announce that I have overcome all hurdles and my PSRU > is ready for sale. It is almost a copy of Tracy's so will fit > exactly in the same mounting position and mounting holes. It differs > to Tracy's in that the cushion drive mounts directly onto the E > shaft, so puts no stress onto the flexplate. The cushion drive is > from vulcanized rubber and if the rubber disintegrates it then > becomes a metal to metal drive which will get you to the ground. The > input shaft is a one piece shaft so no possibility of the pin > shearing. Ratio is 3.17 ; 1 and the planetry housing is machined > from solid to ensure no failures. All based on the Ford gears. I > should note a warning to any with a ford planetry that having > dismantled 8 of these (48 assemblies) I have found 2 sun gears with > one needle roller missing from the bearing set. Seems that the > mexicans or whoever puts these together is not checking as they go > together. This just worries me, but may not make much difference. > Prop shaft is on timken taper bearings, so end thrust is not a > problem and all lubricated with engine oil. Price for the first 5 is > $5500 USD which is slightly discounted due to damage in transit of > the alloy cushion drives. Mounting plate is an extra and sold by > Randy kempf. Freight is $300 and max insurance I can get for another > $200 is $5000 AUD which is $3800 USD. Any interested let me or Randy > Kempf know as Randy is my distributor for the US market. His web > site is Either Rotarpower . net or na73x.wixsite.com/rotarpower > <http://na73x.wixsite.com/rotarpower> This is breaking news, so > the web site has not yet caught up. Also looking at altering the > mounting plate as in shifting the starter motor to the bottom middle > to remove it from exhaust heat. Any thoughts on this?? MY thanks to > Tracy for his assistance who as we all know was years ahead of his > time. Neil Unger. > > > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >
oll





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