X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=L5hfeKb8 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=7kfoBFAjUWcLgFtkcP4LYA==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=xXDCcK6TKBsA:10 a=v2DPQv5-lfwA:10 a=WapCaWovAAAA:20 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=EHnQj-9n5u5dS9zAy4gA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=VxBpik2E858-hDJ4s4oA:9 a=0z4kxiiLyzFKvZEj:21 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com" Received: from mail-wm0-f44.google.com ([74.125.82.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.2) with ESMTPS id 10880261 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:27:33 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.44; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-wm0-f44.google.com with SMTP id r131so2907959wmb.2 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2018 23:27:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=gBO7Tqm3DBLChAUZdYLsItvfs7mXZZ6fGxaFP+WSl7U=; b=UfMelf8ZfreyngREQffk2gMM9P8e5/GhKUE3WHmVdrMBZ+ijAAb3f6lx0JGcvwRUwt I0MFHafqZrK0PyhPtSBCGrsLrFacFTw1sB1xXwpaZH0sJpRoaXoSs+nxYK8B1ezDbvmv Z9oxvQrFsr5I2IsIuncoxGyaV1e+yUDbYXygThXLyJbXBx1bjBYM7UtjDRy/yiRF1Y1r IAed935nD/tiHNzLOLn1KHla1heioy8EN+wvGWj5nmY9fRj/DpXmhEtAJ9u+ag7WAvVK hY1VKp0abbZzGzDdNvIO9t1a8pZgACLWwDra3QYBWjmB92j9ij2slbjkQjBMMYv0UE6/ 9dDQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=gBO7Tqm3DBLChAUZdYLsItvfs7mXZZ6fGxaFP+WSl7U=; b=ixQk/DeEhJFFhqvuxVCSXvxQaAhEEX/U9c3dcfoQUrVEWkJ8WSgE8Nc8HXPH1SE9RI Zg0XsRR07vsxNEyB90dGw+1GKpey9kfIw2KCHIRw7OrlZFvr4m9v4uNJMS5xSS02UvIC 1qr59zLBnLNH7wwRxgBbn2EmkfvzI0PRzfPYi6YgFEoRyePnUbpluvs0arG8C6iOsJcr 79OMs80xK7tUs8qWPNd7gLwJQwTqKMia/ugiuBZI261xPDeH+W70Wg3kORaI9a5GJG8z Ps3G/AotUyYPhSSGaQmxMt0Jsq40epz0NIu4FmWMjaRx3H3gMLc/ipJu4EkxISKZ7tj9 uSgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7G8zm9pZ/Ws2ixlQdl4xgLlL8OT2csUzi82PTmYK4vHQK4Un2vj XjhOwHvUNNyq3OEQN+ul1A8zEAvfpbqPkyktUGfr X-Google-Smtp-Source: AIpwx48Cv2K+G6DFleZKCUi7XfG009gfMgxs7bJ05UMPLjTY90rqylbtau2fW0sEBFdXfXbovRVIqMrIFq4qOMhKRkg= X-Received: by 10.80.186.42 with SMTP id g39mr2072881edc.143.1522218434865; Tue, 27 Mar 2018 23:27:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.135.214 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Mar 2018 23:27:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 23:27:13 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: back-up power for EC2 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c065ba214cc830568731911" --94eb2c065ba214cc830568731911 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, I think that's why Tracy had 2 pins for power. The DB37 pin connector is mounted directly to the circuit board, so while not particularly difficult to add a new power connection plug with feeds onto the board, at this point I don't want to reinvent a wheel that has already been flight proven. I'll just add a couple of diodes at or just before the connector to have separate feeds. This will protect against any loss of power due to wiring. Actually the whole reason this has come up is.... Long ago I had a panel of fuses as per Electric Bob's advice. During my initial flight testing I had a couple of nuisance trips on things like the flaps. I don't recall any on anything serious. But in the years since, I was seduced by the idea of circuit breakers and convinced myself that this was a better idea. So at great effort and some expense I changed out all 37 fuses for CB's (yes that's right, I said 37). Click this link to see pic of panel to see why it was difficult to do. https://photos.app.goo.gl/IiVRKGaZD8uRMcmW2 I know that it was probably a waste of time & money as the fuses were equal if not superior. Anyways in the time since, as I've been working under the panel, wiring, testing, etc, I managed to accidentally pop a few CB's, but what was disconcerting was that one of CB's was toast and not able to reset at all. Now admittedly these are not aircraft grade CB's (like most of my plane), but they are affordable and they fit in place of the previous panel mount fuses and I've had good service from them in other applications (I replaced all the panel mount fuses in my camper with them long ago). So I analyzed my electrical system and everything else that is critical to flight already has redundancy with their own power feed such as primary & secondary injectors, leading & trailing coils, 2 fuel injection pumps, etc. The only weak link to this is the EC2 power supply and in the extremely unlikely event of a short in the wire supplying power and either the inability to reset the breaker or continued tripping due to a continued short, then a redundant power supply would avoid the "dark & stormy night" scenario. Todd (If I didn't like building stuff so much, I don't know what I'd do with all that time & money) Todd Bartrim On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:41 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Be careful if you decide to separate the Vin inside the ec2, I thought > each pin in those plugs is only rated to 1a, so both need to supply power > at all times. > Andrew > > On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 11:37 am, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Ah, yes. I understand you now. I've used them myself in the past. I used >> on to isolate my endurance buss from the main buss. >> Just looked at your link and yeah, thats the same idea. I never used the >> heatsink though. Also used one to wire up my landing lights with an >> alternate feed for a wigwag flasher. >> I think at work I probably have in my spare parts bin several large >> diodes as well. >> Yes, that should be fairly easy to accomplish. >> >> Thanks. Anybody else have any comments? Tomorrow... >> >> Todd (everybody back east is in bed already, while they're just gettin= g >> up down under) >> >> Todd Bartrim >> >> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 8:12 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> No. Add one of those 4 post diodes externally. If I can find mine I=E2= =80=99ll >>> post part number. But pretty sure they are about 25a capacity, you only= use >>> 3 of the pins, 2 in, 1 out. I think they are designed as rectifier, but= are >>> really good for putting 2 power supplies into 1 load. >>> Andrew >>> >>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 11:04 am, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Andrew; >>>> Are you suggesting that the EC2 has an internal diode bridge for thi= s >>>> isolation function? I just checked and have 0.3 ohm between pins, >>>> indicating they are common internally. However I should mention my EC2= is >>>> an original model (serial #315) and I believe Tracy may have changed a= few >>>> things in later versions. It has been updated but this is only for fir= mware >>>> and not hardware. >>>> >>>> >>>> Todd Bartrim >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au = < >>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Todd, a diode bridge in between allows 2 separate power feeds and >>>>> keeps them isolated. >>>>> Andrew >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 10:50 am, Andrew Martin >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 10:46 am, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < >>>>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Has anyone provided redundant power sources for their EC2? >>>>>>> Currently I have power supplied via a circuit breaker, but I'm >>>>>>> considering adding another power supply wire fed with a fuse. >>>>>>> However they would both still feed through pins 33 & 34 which are >>>>>>> internally connected. So even if I was to separate these pins for t= here own >>>>>>> feed (they are currently fed from the same wire), a short on either= one >>>>>>> would likely cause both the fuse and CB to blow. >>>>>>> I'm just trying to take care of a last few things on my list >>>>>>> before taking this plane up to the airport and something I'd added = to the >>>>>>> list many years ago was redundant power for the EC2 since a failure= of that >>>>>>> could really ruin my day. >>>>>>> Since the most likely point of failure (even though it's quite >>>>>>> unlikely) would be the DB37 pin connector on the EC2, I'm not sure = that it >>>>>>> is worth the effort to open up the connector shell to add another p= ower >>>>>>> wire. >>>>>>> I've changed my mind on this several times over the last while an= d >>>>>>> now I'm running low on time so I'd throw it out for the collective = wisdom >>>>>>> of the group. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Todd Bartrim (can't think of anything witty to sign off with) (I >>>>>>> still miss Rusty's witt, for those that remember him) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> C-FSTB >>>>>>> RV9 Turbo13B >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag >>> >> >> -- > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag > --94eb2c065ba214cc830568731911 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yeah, I think that's why Tracy had 2 pins for power. T= he DB37 pin connector is mounted directly to the circuit board, so while no= t particularly difficult to add a new power connection plug with feeds onto= the board, at this point I don't want to reinvent a wheel that has alr= eady been flight proven.
=C2=A0 I'll just add a couple of diodes at= or just before the connector to have separate feeds. This will protect aga= inst any loss of power due to wiring.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Actually the w= hole reason this has come up is....
Long ago I had a panel of fus= es as per Electric Bob's advice. During my initial flight testing I had= a couple of nuisance trips on things like the flaps. I don't recall an= y on anything serious. But in the years since, I was seduced by the idea of= circuit breakers and convinced myself that this was a better idea. So at g= reat effort and some expense I changed out all 37 fuses for CB's (yes t= hat's right, I said 37). Click this link to see pic of panel to see why= it was difficult to do.
I= know that it was probably a waste of time & money as the fuses were eq= ual if not superior.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Anyways in the time since, as I= 've been working under the panel, wiring, testing, etc, I managed to ac= cidentally pop a few CB's, but what was disconcerting was that one of C= B's was toast and not able to reset at all. Now admittedly these are no= t aircraft grade CB's (like most of my plane), but they are affordable = and they fit in place of the previous panel mount fuses and I've had go= od service from them in other applications (I replaced all the panel mount = fuses in my camper with them long ago).
=C2=A0 So I analyzed my e= lectrical system and everything else that is critical to flight already has= redundancy with their own power feed such as primary & secondary injec= tors, leading & trailing coils, 2 fuel injection pumps, etc. The only w= eak link to this is the EC2 power supply and in the extremely unlikely even= t of a short in the wire supplying power and either the inability to reset = the breaker or continued tripping due to a continued short, then a redundan= t power supply would avoid the "dark & stormy night" scenario= .

Todd=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(If I didn't like bu= ilding stuff so much, I don't know what I'd do with all that time &= amp; money)


Todd Bartrim

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:41 PM, Andrew Mart= in andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Be careful if you decide to separa= te the Vin inside the ec2, I thought each pin in those plugs is only rated = to 1a, so both need to supply power at all times.
An= drew

On Wed= , 28 Mar 2018 at 11:37 am, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wro= te:
Ah, yes. I understand you = now. I've used them myself in the past. I used on to isolate my enduran= ce buss from the main buss.
Just looked at your link and yeah, thats th= e same idea. I never used the heatsink though. Also used one to wire up my = landing lights with an alternate feed for a wigwag flasher.
=C2= =A0 I think at work I probably have in my spare parts bin several large dio= des as well.
Yes, that should be fairly easy to accomplish.
=

Thanks. Anybody else have any comments? Tomorrow...

Todd=C2=A0 =C2=A0(everybody back east is in bed alrea= dy, while they're just getting up down under)

Todd Bartrim

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 8:12 PM, Andrew Mart= in andrew@marti= nag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
No. Add one of those 4 post = diodes externally. If I can find mine I=E2=80=99ll post part number. But pr= etty sure they are about 25a capacity, you only use 3 of the pins, 2 in, 1 = out. I think they are designed as rectifier, but are really good for puttin= g 2 power supplies into 1 load.
Andrew

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 11:04 am, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net> wrote:
Hi= Andrew;
=C2=A0 Are you suggesting that the EC2 has an internal diode b= ridge for this isolation function? I just checked and have 0.3 ohm between = pins, indicating they are common internally. However I should mention my EC= 2 is an original model (serial #315) and I believe Tracy may have changed a= few things in later versions. It has been updated but this is only for fir= mware and not hardware.
=C2=A0=C2=A0

Todd= Bartrim

On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Andrew Mart= in andrew@marti= nag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Todd, a diode bridge in betw= een allows 2 separate power feeds and keeps them isolated.
Andrew

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 10:50 am, Andrew Martin <andrew@martinag.com.au&= gt; wrote:

On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 at 10:46 am, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancai= ronline.net> wrote:
Has= anyone provided redundant power sources for their EC2?
=C2=A0 Currentl= y I have power supplied via a circuit breaker, but I'm considering addi= ng another power supply wire fed with a fuse.
However they would = both still feed through pins 33 & 34 which are internally connected. So= even if I was to separate these pins for there own feed (they are currentl= y fed from the same wire), a short on either one would likely cause both th= e fuse and CB to blow.=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0I'm just trying to = take care of a last few things on my list before taking this plane up to th= e airport and something I'd added to the list many years ago was redund= ant power for the EC2 since a failure of that could really ruin my day.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Since the most likely point of failure (even though it= 's quite unlikely) would be the DB37 pin connector on the EC2, I'm = not sure that it is worth the effort to open up the connector shell to add = another power wire.
=C2=A0 I've changed my mind on this sever= al times over the last while and now I'm running low on time so I'd= throw it out for the collective wisdom of the group.

<= div>
Todd Bartrim=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (can't think of anything witty to sign off= with) (I still miss Rusty's witt, for those that remember him)

C-FSTB
RV9 Turbo13B
--=C2=A0
--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag

--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag

--
= Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag

--94eb2c065ba214cc830568731911--