From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Glasair Testing
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 20:54:05 +0800
References: <list-10855339@logan.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Message-Id: <CD566AE5-739A-4291-BBEF-37FED019FE53@gmail.com>

Thanks Tracy
Much appreciated.

Steve
> On 19 Mar 2018, at 8:39 pm, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>=20
> Good memory Steve.  My RV8 inlets are round, 6=E2=80=9D for water, =
5=E2=80=9D for oil cooler.  Oil cooler is a =E2=80=9C30 row cooler=E2=80=9D=
 found on-line.  Can=E2=80=99t remember make.  It=E2=80=99s about 10 x =
11 x 2  but with very closely spaced fins so more fin area than the =
similar core volume on the stock Mazda cooler.
> =20
> The inlets on the RV4 are so irregular (the right side is especially =
ugly : ) that area is unknown.
> =20
> Tracy
> =20
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> =20
> From: Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2018 2:54 AM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glasair Testing
> =20
> Tracy
> Thats what I thought. Our rad should with good airflow easily cool =
200hp.
> I thought I remembered the Otter with a standard mazda oil cooler and =
the RV8 20b with a bigger aftermarket oil cooler.
> Can you provide inlet areas of the RV4 & 8?
> =20
> Thanks again
> =20
> Steve Izett
> > On 18 Mar 2018, at 9:53 am, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >
> > Was thinking of the RV-4 but now that you ask, the rad size was from =
RV-8.  The oil cooler was the RV-4.  I used two 10 x 9 x 4 evaporator =
cores for rad on the 4.
> >
> > Tracy
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On Mar 17, 2018, at 20:13, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Tracy
> >> When you say the rad and oil cooler are the same size as yours, =
were you referring to the RV 4 or 8?
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>> On 18 Mar 2018, at 8:08 am, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Tracy.
> >>> Much appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> Steve
> >>>> On 18 Mar 2018, at 7:48 am, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The rad is the same size as mine so should be OK, oil cooler =
about the same as mine too.  Success depends as much on volume through =
them as size though.  I can=E2=80=99t guess on the inlet size since your =
airspeed will be higher than mine.  In my experience cooling on ground =
had very little bearing on how it works in flight. =20
> >>>>
> >>>> When you are committed to first flight, don=E2=80=99t wait for =
full oil & water temps,  start takeoff run as soon as min. temps reached =
if possible.   I use 120 F. as min.  That will give best chance to make =
it around the pattern for quick landing before overheating if cooling is =
not good enough.  I did many one circuit flights in the early days : )
> >>>>
> >>>> Tracy
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:13 PM
> >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glasair Testing
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Tracy.
> >>>>
> >>>> When you said you agree with Todd, was this in relation to the =
oil cooler appearing to be on the small side?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Any other observation re temps etc?
> >>>>
> >>>> Water Cooler - 13x17.7x2.35 giving 541in3 fed by 20in2 right =
cheek which gets very little air from the prop.
> >>>>
> >>>> Oil Cooler - turbo rx7 11x8.75x2 giving 193in3 fed by 7.4in2 =
inlet 12=E2=80=9D below spinner, which gets better prop blast.
> >>>>
> >>>> See photo for inlets (left cheek feeds air filter and cooling of =
coils only. Right cheek is mirror image)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks again for your gearbox, controllers and knowledge base =
over the years.
> >>>>
> >>>> Very much appreciated.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Steve Izett
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 18 Mar 2018, at 4:03 am, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Steve,
> >>>> I agree with Todd=E2=80=99s comments.  The EM2/3 will not give =
reliable airspeed readings below around 20 MPH due to the limitations of =
the sensor used and resolution of the ADC in the EM3.
> >>>>
> >>>> Glad to see the progress!
> >>>>
> >>>> Tracy
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 5:35 AM
> >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glasair Testing
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi guys
> >>>>
> >>>> I repotted the graph using gps ground speed (there was no breeze =
that day) as it shows the lower speed taxing where the airspeed =
indicator doesn=E2=80=99t down low.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>>
> >>>> Steve Izett
> >>>> <69C652B733844F5DB5ECD4A530438876.jpg>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 17 Mar 2018, at 5:28 pm, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> HI Todd
> >>>> Thanks for the feedback. And yes the manifold pressure does make =
sense, I was upside down expecting a lower manifold pressure at WOT. =
Doh!
> >>>> I=E2=80=99m colourblind and cant differentiate between some of =
those colours so was getting confused.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes that Cri Cri is an interesting and tiny machine.
> >>>> Dawie and Sarki are great guys with heaps of experience and have =
been so very helpful.
> >>>> They bring it out every time we have an open day at our club. The =
crowds love it.
> >>>>
> >>>> On another note I=E2=80=99m very interested in the possibility of =
turboing the renesis in the future if all else goes well.
> >>>> What turbo are you using, what level of boost do you use and what =
hp do you think this is creating?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks again
> >>>>
> >>>> Steve Izett
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 17 Mar 2018, at 4:29 pm, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Steve;
> >>>> The manifold looks like exactly what I would expect to match your =
RPM, so no worries there. The temps don't look too bad to me. Possibly =
your oil cooling might be little low as it begins to increase rapidly =
when you add power and during an extended climb-out you may see that get =
a little hotter than you like, but it looks like it stabilizes quickly =
when you reduce the power.
> >>>> If everything else is performing well (fuel, electrical) then I =
don't see why it's not time to see how it cools in the air. That's a =
quick plane so my guess is that if you have enough ground cooling for =
indefinate ground operation, you may find excess cooling (and drag) in =
the air.
> >>>>
> >>>> But the real reason I'm responding right now is not rotary =
related....  A JET POWERED CRI CRI???? Holy s**t, what will they do =
next! So I found the YouTube video of it (VH-ZSE right?) That's pretty =
cool!
> >>>>
> >>>> Todd
> >>>> C-FSTB
> >>>> RV9 Turbo13B
> >>>>
> >>>> Todd Bartrim
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Stephen Izett =
stephen.izett@gmail.com<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >>>> Hi people
> >>>>
> >>>> Continued testing the Glasair Super IIRG yesterday with an OAT of =
70. See graph of 13 minutes of data (Note: temps in C, Speed in Knots)
> >>>>
> >>>> Apart from collecting data on the cooling I flooded my system =
with adrenaline.
> >>>>
> >>>> On the second run as I hit about 45knots I encountered very high =
vibration with no warning. I braked and turned of the engine thinking it =
emanated from the engine/prop.
> >>>> After leaving the runway and stopping for a few moments I tried a =
restart, and found all perfectly normal. Previously I had encountered =
huge missing at rpm so immediately thought that was the issue.
> >>>> Having wrongly diagnosed the phenomenon I taxied back and did =
another run seeking to emulate the fault. Well this time I got up to =
about 47knots and all hell broke loose.
> >>>> I was barely able to control her, leaving the strip and into the =
ruff. Over the radio came the call =E2=80=9Cif you continue with that =
front nose shimmy you will destroy your aircraft=E2=80=9D.
> >>>> Well I had no interest in continuing the testing at that stage =
but was very thankful for the feedback from someone watching on. With my =
lack of expertise I had completely failed to realise what was happening.
> >>>>
> >>>> Back to the hangar and pulled the Shimmy Damper apart. Oil had =
gotten in at some point, so cleaned it up and re torqued the assembly.
> >>>>
> >>>> A friend on our airstrip with extensive experience in many =
different aircraft (he has an RV8, Longezy, jet powered cir cri, =
Comanche twin) then took it out with me (data not provided) and he =
confirmed he thought the aircraft seemed very responsive (shimmy Damper =
a little to tight now) and proceeded to lift the nose off for the first =
time under its own power at a little over 50 knots.
> >>>>
> >>>> So some big lessons for me in relation to my expertise and risk =
profiling.
> >>>> Temps still concerning but I=E2=80=99m wondering if there is =
enough capacity to attempt flight testing.
> >>>> I would appreciate any wisdom that any of you glean from the log =
data. (I expected a different result from the manifold readings, so not =
sure what is going on there)
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >>>>
> >>>> Steve Izett
> >>>> Perth WA - Glasair Super IIRG with Renesis 4 port, RD1C, EM3, EC3
> >>>>
> >>>> <Testing 16th March 18.jpeg>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>>
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> >>>
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> =20
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