From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Glasair Testing
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 14:26:56 +0800
References: <list-10852881@logan.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Message-Id: <A518C2F6-4FB7-4751-AE29-C19196DC4333@gmail.com>

Tracy
Thats what I thought. Our rad should with good airflow easily cool =
200hp.
I thought I remembered the Otter with a standard mazda oil cooler and =
the RV8 20b with a bigger aftermarket oil cooler.
Can you provide inlet areas of the RV4 & 8?

Thanks again

Steve Izett
=20
> On 18 Mar 2018, at 9:53 am, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>=20
> Was thinking of the RV-4 but now that you ask, the rad size was from =
RV-8.  The oil cooler was the RV-4.  I used two 10 x 9 x 4 evaporator =
cores for rad on the 4.
>=20
> Tracy
>=20
> Sent from my iPad
>=20
>> On Mar 17, 2018, at 20:13, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>=20
>> Tracy
>> When you say the rad and oil cooler are the same size as yours, were =
you referring to the RV 4 or 8?
>> Steve
>>=20
>>> On 18 Mar 2018, at 8:08 am, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Thanks Tracy.=20
>>> Much appreciated.
>>>=20
>>> Steve
>>>> On 18 Mar 2018, at 7:48 am, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> The rad is the same size as mine so should be OK, oil cooler about =
the same as mine too.  Success depends as much on volume through them as =
size though.  I can=E2=80=99t guess on the inlet size since your =
airspeed will be higher than mine.  In my experience cooling on ground =
had very little bearing on how it works in flight. =20
>>>>=20
>>>> When you are committed to first flight, don=E2=80=99t wait for full =
oil & water temps,  start takeoff run as soon as min. temps reached if =
possible.   I use 120 F. as min.  That will give best chance to make it =
around the pattern for quick landing before overheating if cooling is =
not good enough.  I did many one circuit flights in the early days : )
>>>>=20
>>>> Tracy
>>>>=20
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>=20
>>>> From: Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:13 PM
>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glasair Testing
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi Tracy.=20
>>>>=20
>>>> When you said you agree with Todd, was this in relation to the oil =
cooler appearing to be on the small side?
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Any other observation re temps etc?=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Water Cooler - 13x17.7x2.35 giving 541in3 fed by 20in2 right cheek =
which gets very little air from the prop.
>>>>=20
>>>> Oil Cooler - turbo rx7 11x8.75x2 giving 193in3 fed by 7.4in2 inlet =
12=E2=80=9D below spinner, which gets better prop blast.
>>>>=20
>>>> See photo for inlets (left cheek feeds air filter and cooling of =
coils only. Right cheek is mirror image)
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks again for your gearbox, controllers and knowledge base over =
the years.
>>>>=20
>>>> Very much appreciated.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Steve Izett
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On 18 Mar 2018, at 4:03 am, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi Steve,
>>>> I agree with Todd=E2=80=99s comments.  The EM2/3 will not give =
reliable airspeed readings below around 20 MPH due to the limitations of =
the sensor used and resolution of the ADC in the EM3.
>>>>=20
>>>> Glad to see the progress!
>>>>=20
>>>> Tracy
>>>>=20
>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>>>=20
>>>> From: Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 5:35 AM
>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glasair Testing
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi guys
>>>>=20
>>>> I repotted the graph using gps ground speed (there was no breeze =
that day) as it shows the lower speed taxing where the airspeed =
indicator doesn=E2=80=99t down low.
>>>>=20
>>>> Cheers
>>>>=20
>>>> Steve Izett
>>>> <69C652B733844F5DB5ECD4A530438876.jpg>
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On 17 Mar 2018, at 5:28 pm, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> HI Todd
>>>> Thanks for the feedback. And yes the manifold pressure does make =
sense, I was upside down expecting a lower manifold pressure at WOT. =
Doh!
>>>> I=E2=80=99m colourblind and cant differentiate between some of =
those colours so was getting confused.=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Yes that Cri Cri is an interesting and tiny machine.
>>>> Dawie and Sarki are great guys with heaps of experience and have =
been so very helpful.
>>>> They bring it out every time we have an open day at our club. The =
crowds love it.
>>>>=20
>>>> On another note I=E2=80=99m very interested in the possibility of =
turboing the renesis in the future if all else goes well.
>>>> What turbo are you using, what level of boost do you use and what =
hp do you think this is creating?
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks again
>>>>=20
>>>> Steve Izett
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On 17 Mar 2018, at 4:29 pm, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi Steve;
>>>> The manifold looks like exactly what I would expect to match your =
RPM, so no worries there. The temps don't look too bad to me. Possibly =
your oil cooling might be little low as it begins to increase rapidly =
when you add power and during an extended climb-out you may see that get =
a little hotter than you like, but it looks like it stabilizes quickly =
when you reduce the power.
>>>> If everything else is performing well (fuel, electrical) then I =
don't see why it's not time to see how it cools in the air. That's a =
quick plane so my guess is that if you have enough ground cooling for =
indefinate ground operation, you may find excess cooling (and drag) in =
the air.
>>>>=20
>>>> But the real reason I'm responding right now is not rotary =
related....  A JET POWERED CRI CRI???? Holy s**t, what will they do =
next! So I found the YouTube video of it (VH-ZSE right?) That's pretty =
cool!
>>>>=20
>>>> Todd
>>>> C-FSTB
>>>> RV9 Turbo13B
>>>>=20
>>>> Todd Bartrim
>>>>=20
>>>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Stephen Izett =
stephen.izett@gmail.com<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi people
>>>>=20
>>>> Continued testing the Glasair Super IIRG yesterday with an OAT of =
70. See graph of 13 minutes of data (Note: temps in C, Speed in Knots)
>>>>=20
>>>> Apart from collecting data on the cooling I flooded my system with =
adrenaline.
>>>>=20
>>>> On the second run as I hit about 45knots I encountered very high =
vibration with no warning. I braked and turned of the engine thinking it =
emanated from the engine/prop.
>>>> After leaving the runway and stopping for a few moments I tried a =
restart, and found all perfectly normal. Previously I had encountered =
huge missing at rpm so immediately thought that was the issue.
>>>> Having wrongly diagnosed the phenomenon I taxied back and did =
another run seeking to emulate the fault. Well this time I got up to =
about 47knots and all hell broke loose.=20
>>>> I was barely able to control her, leaving the strip and into the =
ruff. Over the radio came the call =E2=80=9Cif you continue with that =
front nose shimmy you will destroy your aircraft=E2=80=9D.=20
>>>> Well I had no interest in continuing the testing at that stage but =
was very thankful for the feedback from someone watching on. With my =
lack of expertise I had completely failed to realise what was happening.
>>>>=20
>>>> Back to the hangar and pulled the Shimmy Damper apart. Oil had =
gotten in at some point, so cleaned it up and re torqued the assembly.
>>>>=20
>>>> A friend on our airstrip with extensive experience in many =
different aircraft (he has an RV8, Longezy, jet powered cir cri, =
Comanche twin) then took it out with me (data not provided) and he =
confirmed he thought the aircraft seemed very responsive (shimmy Damper =
a little to tight now) and proceeded to lift the nose off for the first =
time under its own power at a little over 50 knots.
>>>>=20
>>>> So some big lessons for me in relation to my expertise and risk =
profiling.
>>>> Temps still concerning but I=E2=80=99m wondering if there is enough =
capacity to attempt flight testing.
>>>> I would appreciate any wisdom that any of you glean from the log =
data. (I expected a different result from the manifold readings, so not =
sure what is going on there)
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks
>>>>=20
>>>> Steve Izett
>>>> Perth WA - Glasair Super IIRG with Renesis 4 port, RD1C, EM3, EC3
>>>>=20
>>>> <Testing 16th March 18.jpeg>
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
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