X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=K8pgJGeI c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=qnSpgmcuK+FmQq7Tvt5Hjg==:117 a=fQfAR06v6bAE3JXR6z583w==:17 a=F81BX5grs2gA:10 a=RgaUWeydRksA:10 a=DAwyPP_o2Byb1YXLmDAA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=on22okXAAAAA:8 a=8VJbRE_Nca-M_vUVAegA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=1onm7W0HqpBm5U61:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=NPqpj5bUEVj9vR1HIonK:22 From: "Pam & Dave Williams padajute@idcnet.com" Received: from outmx1.netwurx.net ([209.242.224.95] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.1) with ESMTP id 10636102 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 23:19:48 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.242.224.95; envelope-from=padajute@idcnet.com Received: from red1.netwurx.net (red1.netwurx.net [209.242.224.185]) by outmx1.netwurx.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 253585475 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2018 04:19:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from padajute@idcnet.com) Received: from MG005YVT (unknown [72.169.96.235]) (Authenticated sender: padajute@idcnet.com) by red1.netwurx.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 09ABD17E6D for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 22:19:14 -0600 (CST) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Thermostat for winter operations Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 22:19:01 -0600 Message-ID: <011c01d39981$7f6f7c40$7e4e74c0$@idcnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011D_01D3994F.34D75630" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQIp5VEY2mBf5+lZhArWyQoLAj5vwKLfNU0w Content-Language: en-us This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_011D_01D3994F.34D75630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When I built my Rotary, I cut the pump down and removed the thermostat. = I replaced the thermostat with a restrictor orifice. I built a cowl flap = to control airflow\water temp but I need to change the actuator for more = mechanical advantage. In 20 degree air I am only getting up to 120 = degree water temp.=20 =20 Dave Williams Wisconsin =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 7:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Thermostat for winter operations =20 Well, I am wary of thermostats, an old Volvo truck and a 2 year old = Mercedes wagon have left on the side of the road with stuck shut = thermostats, luckily both times within 10km walking distance of home. am = I just unlucky? If I do install one in the plane it will become part of the annual = inspection to remove and check its operation in boiling water. Andrew =20 On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 7:20 AM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com = > wrote: No doubt Lynn is correct. But while power is everything to a racer, it = rarely is everything to the rest of us. Look at how temps in cars have = been inching upward for decades. If metallurgy & lubricants would allow = it, they'd be running 500 degree engines because it's more efficient = (Lower delta-T; less energy lost to the coolant/outside world, where = it's not doing any work). =20 On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com = > wrote: Guys, =20 None other than our Rotary Guru Lynn Hanover has stated in the past = that coolant temps over 160F hurt power........Perhaps he will Chime in here again and enlighten us !!............<:) =20 Best, Kelly Troyer =20 =20 =20 =20 On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:14 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com = > wrote: Jeff, I also installed a thermostat after trying all the other = options, cowl flaps, cardboard over the rad, and could not get it = constant with the 180 degrees. I have operated much machinery here all = fitted with thermostats and have never had a failure for 40 years. I am = more than happy with a thermostat in my renesis -- would do it again = every time. Failures in thermostats are extremely rare, about as common = as a prop coming loose. My thermostat is permanently in place summer = and winter. If worried change it every 500 hours. On 1/30/2018 7:51 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com = wrote: Hello All: Up until this past weekend I have purposefully avoided using a = thermostat in my 13B aircraft engine - reason being is that many years = ago I had one stick open and another stick closed in my GMC truck. = Encouraged by reading Steve Boese's flight report from last fall, I = decided to give one a try. Operation up here in the frozen north = requires some method of maintaining engine temperature when power is = reduced or when it's really cold. Cowl flaps, louvers and mechanical = controls are okay but they add a lot of weight and complication VS a = simple thermostat. I opened up the top of my water pump housing, extracted the bypass plug, = removed my 0.75" restrictor plate and inserted a 180F thermostat from = Racing Beat. On Saturday I refilled the coolant system, pressurized it = and ran the engine up to temperature. On Sunday I bled off the = remaining pressure, rechecked the system, pressurized it to 8 PSI and = went flying. At first I felt a bit uneasy as the engine warmed up to = 185F-indicated while still on the ground - but I assured myself that is = what it's supposed to do ! Other than my gauge reading 185F and the = device being advertised as 180F it worked flawlessly; temperature never = varied at all and there was a good source of cabin heat. OAT was about = 3C or 36F at the time. My plan is to leave the thermostat in place for now and keep a close = watch on engine temps as the OAT rises next spring/summer. I expect it = will be removed for summer operations and re-installed again around = October 2018 ... we'll see. Jeff 13B, RD1C, 130 hrs TT. =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_011D_01D3994F.34D75630 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

When I built my Rotary, I cut the pump down and removed the thermostat. = I replaced the thermostat with a restrictor orifice. I built a cowl flap = to control airflow\water temp but I need to change the actuator for more = mechanical advantage. In 20 degree air I am only getting up to 120 = degree water temp.

 

Dave Williams

Wisconsin

 

From:<= /b> = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] =
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 7:15 PM
To: Rotary = motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Thermostat for winter operations

 

Well, I am wary of thermostats, an old Volvo truck and = a 2 year old Mercedes wagon have left on the side of the road with stuck = shut thermostats, luckily both times within 10km walking distance of = home. am I just unlucky?

If I = do install one in the plane it will become part of the annual inspection = to remove and check its operation in boiling = water.


Andrew

 

On Tue, = Jan 30, 2018 at 7:20 AM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

No = doubt Lynn is correct. But while power is everything to a racer, it = rarely is everything to the rest of us. Look at how temps in cars have = been inching upward for decades. If metallurgy & lubricants would = allow it, they'd be running 500 degree engines because it's more = efficient (Lower delta-T; less energy lost to the coolant/outside world, = where it's not doing any work).

 

On Mon, = Jan 29, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Guys,

 

  =  None other than our Rotary Guru Lynn Hanover has stated in the = past that coolant temps over 160F hurt = power........Perhaps

he = will Chime in here again and enlighten us = !!............<:)

 

Best,

Kelly Troyer

 

 

 

 

On Mon, = Jan 29, 2018 at 4:14 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Jeff,   I also installed a thermostat after = trying all the other options, cowl flaps, cardboard over the rad,  = and could not get it constant with the 180 degrees.  I have = operated much machinery here all fitted with thermostats and have never = had a failure for 40 years.  I am more than happy with a thermostat = in my renesis -- would do it again every time.  Failures in = thermostats are extremely rare, about as common as a prop coming = loose.  My thermostat is permanently in place summer and = winter.  If worried change it every 500 = hours.




On = 1/30/2018 7:51 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com = wrote:

Hello All:
Up until this past weekend = I have purposefully avoided using a thermostat in my 13B aircraft engine = - reason being is that many years ago I had one stick open and another = stick closed in my GMC truck.  Encouraged by reading Steve Boese's = flight report from last fall, I decided to give one a try.  = Operation up here in the frozen north requires some method of = maintaining engine temperature when power is reduced or when it's really = cold.  Cowl flaps, louvers and mechanical controls are okay but = they add a lot of weight and complication VS a simple = thermostat.

I opened up the top of my water pump housing, = extracted the bypass plug, removed my 0.75" restrictor plate and = inserted a 180F thermostat from Racing Beat.  On Saturday I = refilled the coolant system, pressurized it and ran the engine up to = temperature.  On Sunday I bled off the remaining pressure, = rechecked the system, pressurized it to 8 PSI and went flying.  At = first I felt a bit uneasy as the engine warmed up to 185F-indicated = while still on the ground - but I assured myself that is what it's = supposed to do !  Other than my gauge reading 185F and the device = being advertised as 180F it worked flawlessly; temperature never varied = at all and there was a good source of cabin heat.  OAT was about 3C = or 36F at the time.

My plan is to leave the thermostat in place = for now and keep a close watch on engine temps as the OAT rises next = spring/summer.  I expect it will be removed for summer operations = and re-installed again around October 2018 ... we'll = see.

Jeff
13B, RD1C, 130 hrs = TT.

 

 

 

 

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