X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=K8pgJGeI c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=4d+bt59klnT5eBvdoIMWyw==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=v3LxZtijEEoA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=RgaUWeydRksA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=69EAbJreAAAA:8 a=jJrOw3FHAAAA:8 a=bsATwsvZAAAA:8 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=xPyZ54XvAAAA:8 a=J8TROM1jENBMWCH-hb0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=77x-yTWI9uoA:10 a=HfdpfQiixUcA:10 a=i0QVcGgQB5gA:10 a=-FEs8UIgK8oA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=kPR48rpoAAAA:8 a=bgruC-atIDfW_mJOGaAA:9 a=UpJ-lKuRV-SG950h:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=lsIkP6lG2H4f0j7eDx0G:22 a=YgZUEpoybBZZp_vkc61X:22 a=5YQ6H4ZxyGn-KoBYtt8s:22 a=LQCduUwlY3eUW_MavTj7:22 a=Y3nQ7mX9hcbL2wwZa1q_:22 From: "william Aldridge willja67@hotmail.com" Received: from [40.92.7.29] (HELO NAM03-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.1) with ESMTPS id 10617263 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 08:30:41 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=40.92.7.29; envelope-from=willja67@hotmail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=f9Yjq7YqHuBxYbB4Dsya5VWPDmo+I8QiLIBcVtz06tE=; b=ll8ov+e3LGSDhnuXX9V1e6gRgoWgf5oYKsRYrOqXJ7ff2MOcjGn40tP59EgBPKR+38aO7SzwEtQ62QrGodNyMfUGXo6a0fGRBKHT5WvT4FSJKdvnlzG7PVEWKzL48G/lXsaU8VZrVLKGu6HwgUJJD5b01FF7eHXzno5g6JKGlAU4FCBmK0vKMJzbMPoTpfUGR6XG/UoBw2VGYRnb4YS/rRKnXvRJ4nG0xOZNcqjUjUdD/d8f+5UA2IyJez6G+Xlrw+US7fZ9luBs8c3CSYS2fDab8u/9teYrIEiBq9/U+ly1ZMkzSrLHemm7kj783/YQGCS6N6p3ng7NVkYMhBw0mQ== Received: from DM3NAM03FT062.eop-NAM03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.82.60) by DM3NAM03HT018.eop-NAM03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.83.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.345.5; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 13:30:21 +0000 Received: from BY1PR16MB0133.namprd16.prod.outlook.com (10.152.82.58) by DM3NAM03FT062.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.83.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.428.23 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 13:30:21 +0000 Received: from BY1PR16MB0133.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2de5:2a1f:f12b:ca4d]) by BY1PR16MB0133.namprd16.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2de5:2a1f:f12b:ca4d%17]) with mapi id 15.20.0444.014; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 13:30:21 +0000 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems? Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems? Thread-Index: AQHTlOR+JuinTvI/eEGoVXLK8W7r8KODBSzp Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 13:30:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:45D93DB799CD5520FC16064BC82BA5DB53750213D2F3B4D762741498D0B7CAA6;UpperCasedChecksum:3617124C76B21D2DFB04418B33267D8A52A8386D977220E02682288F7658CD63;SizeAsReceived:7139;Count:46 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [i7MpyXDhHN20rW08WQkHO0IJRte170SoE+nb6ZVXuUJua5kPo8ICRwZVfhefMUQGVqqq9bZe7EU=] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1;DM3NAM03HT018;6:H8xAE3Agm0uhaM8nFO/inHpgiYC+uElkftVP+a1afbwAyCy9XbOXQTqOpESZy9J42DeK3LjnixWN8f9oCoc1MzAO15Y3cINPEOcS8yjJrk639HbESxKapt3wxkEgz/6NWMoQi01onHKiGkhlf2pwrFXlXvg7CisLBAy5sVYC5OwDHQbpNQwAHmxdUEm8SwhUjq3SGrto5VBGBXRW3whg+Q29JxuasYr26w/eelGXHrX1Q5bi81DcAVNujFZ6tUOd/COPfeKK1rI7E1Kktbgh8V3FVx8a/f3RgNfRquWjjXPIOnI5D/Oukil6iO4fkLLgwF0WRJHAMTatXXHJdSBoustxpvEK0DDo7U91JTL/uzA=;5:RfMyzvkopnQMr3fgUh/wbYpdXFhTugtfP2ZTeNNhXTr4TMpjfJgQUd2pw0tOihRk48Yx4SmzANgpA2NuZuNIkifD7feoy4JXD+KiOz4hbbEJS3U56iT34eJz9RRYmTJRpcLnGG7I4P9SEWu3cDac8svDeKGTdDwyAqTK17inruE=;24:buKzpTfIb3k9No4dkxUNNDjWdAtaCGGedvRKeXFMDwYMNm3NUPbNd9krCMaA6SxzvyuewHtodLCTSWcKjd1IPLmbXKPjaVwqYWJ0qgvl1e4=;7:R1Jf5TV6Lo61RdpNPNyCJ3NkMg3I+haUBFLrU8P/NQ++Hc7+D59DJkmDtF09rjJza/D7XD8SUMpKTHpBKTp4HVlFtFIkDkKyNUmaW0iSiPYkrqU8Wn7XXGnIfD1zbalsuDavv9CxN/vbMaivFU8GD2d3fRPkCzrfc/A84BI+8GYhWvGA6uNJxziF00P8i0J4OjFtPt+uubPvDXeEhp1w0DtW1HCnT8WIL2RwT1XXTNEp+TlanRBXa0lG+iRRBPQL x-incomingheadercount: 46 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(7020095)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322404)(1603101448)(1601125374)(1701031045);SRVR:DM3NAM03HT018; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM3NAM03HT018: x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 24519cba-5931-4e54-f7a8-08d5632e9e27 x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(444000031);SRVR:DM3NAM03HT018;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM3NAM03HT018; x-forefront-prvs: 056297E276 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM;SFS:(7070007)(98901004);DIR:OUT;SFP:1901;SCL:1;SRVR:DM3NAM03HT018;H:BY1PR16MB0133.namprd16.prod.outlook.com;FPR:;SPF:None;LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BY1PR16MB01332C917AA9D8E109BD7B14DBE20BY1PR16MB0133namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 24519cba-5931-4e54-f7a8-08d5632e9e27 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Jan 2018 13:30:21.4608 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM3NAM03HT018 --_000_BY1PR16MB01332C917AA9D8E109BD7B14DBE20BY1PR16MB0133namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, Since you brought up p- port sizes I'd like to ask your recommendation. Hav= ing in the neighborhood of 250 hp would be nice for bragging rights (roughl= y same power to weight ratio as a corsair) but since my plane is a derivati= ve of the 1/2 scale war replicas that were only designed for 100 hp I'm a l= ittle worried about ripping the wings off since my bird is a lot cleaner ae= rodynamically. So in terms of mission, simplicity and cost what are your re= commendations for the induction system? Thanks Will Aldridge Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com" Date: 1/24/18 12:25 AM (GMT-07:00) To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems? Will, The test engine uses the distributor from the early 13B but no high tension= cap. If you look at the "cold" side of the engine in the video you can eas= ily see it. It has a custom cap/cover. The ignition uses a old Mallory opti= cally triggered ignition. It works like the 4 cylinder two coil dual lead w= asted spark ignition. I'm not sure if it's even still available. The inject= ion is a standard Airflow Performance aircraft mechanical fuel injection. I= do plan to test a SDSEFI full engine management system. The test engine is= the exact spec that the original Powersport was going to sell. As simple a= s possible. For $14,000 complete! I told Steve if Everett hadn't been kille= d in the crash they could have become a homebuilt engine standard. The cost= will be higher now, if only because the parts prices have gone up. That en= gine makes as much as 195 HP. That is our small port engine! The other engi= ne has 1-3/4" ports. The small port is 1-5/16" both are P port engines. I b= elieve the big port engine will be about 240 HP at 7000 rpm. I wish there w= as a big enough base to sell to. If there was I would already be doing it f= ull time. Right now it is a passionate hobby. Bill Jepson On Jan 23, 2018 10:40 PM, "william Aldridge willja67@hotmail.com" > wrote: Thanks Bill, That cpi looks pretty good. For right now at least it's on my short list. = I've got a engine core that may or may not be useable, I'm about to start t= earing it down. So I'm a ways from needing the ignition system but want to = be ready and informed when the time comes. Btw i saw your post looking for engines to test mount your psru. How's that= coming? And i guess more appropriate to this thread what ignition system a= re you running on the engine in this video: https://youtu.be/EfreUJt-Fsk Thanks, Will Aldridge Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com" > Date: 1/23/18 3:56 PM (GMT-07:00) To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems? Will, Ross doesn't generally list Rotary engines in his catalog, but he isn't aga= inst them. He has a injection that still lists rotary engines. To run his i= gnition only you would likely need to get an aluminum e-shaft pulley to ins= tall his magnets. He has his own Hall effect sensors. He used to sell both = ignition units and full EMS systems. Don't know if he is still doing it ind= ividually. The advantage of his system is that he does do aircraft stuff. H= is business has in fact gravitated towards aircraft since so many cars now = come with their own systems unless it is a full custom build they often don= 't need an EMS. BTW I don't work for them or get anything for recommending = their products. I met Ross at Reno while crewing for a friend on a Sport Cl= ass entry. Ross was providing an EMS for a very fast Questair Venture runni= ng a turbo Lyc. Very good guy. A 4 cylinder unit with dual plug coils will = run the rotary just fine. The timing is the same, except that the coil isn'= t wasting a spark in the exhaust, instead it is firing both plugs on a sing= le rotor. Ross' site still lists his "coil pack ignition" for vehicles wit= h mechanical injection or carburetors. Bill On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:24 PM, william Aldridge willja67@hotmail.com > wrote: Looked over his site this morning and if i read It right there was only a f= uel injection controller/ system, no ignition control. Out was here: http:= //www.sdsefi.com/prices.html If I'm reading that chart at the top of the page right he doesn't supply ig= nition systems for the rotary. Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: "William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com" > Date: 1/23/18 12:14 PM (GMT-07:00) To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems? Guys, I don't know if he is still offering it but SDSEFI (Simple Digital Sy= stems, www.SDSEFI.com) has both an ignition only sys= tem and a full engine management system that will work for a 13B. His syste= m doesn't have split firing, but most people running a high performance rot= ary do both plugs at once anyway. He has a newer dual in one box system, FO= R AIRCRAFT that could be run simultaneously to do a split fire and be fully= redundant. Bill Jepson On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net > wrote: Maybe someone out there has a RWS original ignition controller they want to= let go of. No programming required, uses 13-B standard pickup and ignition= coils. Of course you'll have to use carburetor(s). I have one, but really don't want to let go if it. Its simplicity is nice i= f just want to get 13-B running. (All you have to do is set timing and tune= carburetors.) Finn On 1/22/2018 11:31 PM, william Aldridge willja67@hotmail.com wrote: I'm building a one off experimental, therefore, i need a simple bullet pro= of Ignition system and am wondering what is currently available? I have th= e 2007 version of Tracy's conversion manual in which he gives the option of= either using the stock distributor etc, or use a computerized ignition sys= tem with stock or Chevy ls coils. To reiterate, since the airframe is unproven i only want to be worried abou= t flying the plane not the engine. It's a small plane the size that would n= ormally have 100hp installed (1200 lbs gross) so if I only have 150 hp I'll= still be doing good. In other words I'm willing to sacrifice a little powe= r for a lot of reliability and simplicity. I don't like the idea of the stock distributor, since there isn't much room= in the cowl and there's no redundancy. I also don't like the idea of elect= ronic ignition. I've read enough stories of lengthy battles to get the comp= uters to play nice with the engine and don't want to go that route. Again s= implicity and reliability at the expense of power and fuel efficiency is wh= at I'm after. Also planning on using a carb for the same reason. I can alwa= ys upgrade the engine later if i want. I figure there has to have been some other options come up in the last 10 y= ears. I used to subscribe to the other guys list, but don't know if any of = the ideas he put forth have merit. Thanks, Will Aldridge Ps my build thread on hba here: http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/sh= owthread.php?t=3D16831 Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone --_000_BY1PR16MB01332C917AA9D8E109BD7B14DBE20BY1PR16MB0133namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill, 
Since you brought up p- port sizes I'd like to ask your recommendation= . Having in the neighborhood of 250 hp would be nice for bragging rights (r= oughly same power to weight ratio as a corsair) but since my plane is a der= ivative of the 1/2 scale war replicas that were only designed for 100 hp I'm a little worried about ripping the = wings off since my bird is a lot cleaner aerodynamically. So in terms of mi= ssion, simplicity and cost what are your recommendations for the induction = system?
Thanks 
Will Aldridge 



Sent from my Veriz= on, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancai= ronline.net>
Date: 1/24/18 12:25 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems?

Will,
The test engine uses the distributor from the early 13B b= ut no high tension cap. If you look at the "cold" side of the eng= ine in the video you can easily see it. It has a custom cap/cover. The igni= tion uses a old Mallory optically triggered ignition. It works like the 4 cylinder two coil dual lead wasted spark ign= ition. I'm not sure if it's even still available. The injection is a standa= rd Airflow Performance aircraft mechanical fuel injection. I do plan to tes= t a SDSEFI full engine management system. The test engine is the exact spec that the original Powersport was= going to sell. As simple as possible. For $14,000 complete! I told Steve i= f Everett hadn't been killed in the crash they could have become a homebuil= t engine standard. The cost will be higher now, if only because the parts prices have gone up. That engine = makes as much as 195 HP. That is our small port engine! The other engine ha= s 1-3/4" ports. The small port is 1-5/16" both are P port engines= . I believe the big port engine will be about 240 HP at 7000 rpm. I wish there was a big enough base to sell to. If ther= e was I would already be doing it full time. Right now it is a passionate h= obby.

Bill Jepson

On Jan 23, 2018 10:40 PM, "william Aldridge= willja67@hotmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Thanks Bill, 
That cpi looks pretty good. For right now at least it's on my short li= st.  I've got a engine core that may or may not be useable, I'm about = to start tearing it down. So I'm a ways from needing the ignition system bu= t want to be ready and informed when the time comes. 

Btw i saw your post looking for engines to test mount your psru. How's= that coming? And i guess more appropriate to this thread what ignition sys= tem are you running on the engine in this video: https://youtu.be/EfreUJt-Fsk=

Thanks, 

Will Aldridge 



Sent from my Veriz= on, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
Date: 1/23/18 3:56 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems?

Will,
Ross doesn't generally list Rotary engines in his catalog, but he isn'= t against them. He has a injection that still lists rotary engines. To run = his ignition only you would likely need to get an aluminum e-shaft pulley t= o install his magnets. He has his own Hall effect sensors. He used to sell both ignition units and full EMS = systems. Don't know if he is still doing it individually. The advantage of = his system is that he does do aircraft stuff. His business has in fact grav= itated towards aircraft since so many cars now come with their own systems unless it is a full custom build= they often don't need an EMS. BTW I don't work for them or get anything fo= r recommending their products. I met Ross at Reno while crewing for a frien= d on a Sport Class entry. Ross was providing an EMS for a very fast Questair Venture running a turbo Lyc. Ver= y good guy. A 4 cylinder unit with dual plug coils will run the rotary just= fine. The timing is the same, except that the coil isn't wasting a spark i= n the exhaust, instead it is firing both plugs on a single rotor.  Ross' site still lists his "coil = pack ignition" for vehicles with mechanical injection or carburetors.<= /div>
Bill

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:24 PM, william Aldrid= ge willja67@hotmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Looked over his site this morning and if i read It right there was onl= y a fuel injection controller/ system,  no ignition control. Out was h= ere: h= ttp://www.sdsefi.com/prices.html

If I'm reading that chart at the top of the page right he doesn't supp= ly ignition systems for the rotary. 



Sent from my Veriz= on, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
Date: 1/23/18 12:14 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems?

Guys, I don't know if he is still offering it but SDSEFI (= Simple Digital Systems, www.SDSEFI.com) has= both an ignition only system and a full engine management system that will= work for a 13B. His system doesn't have split firing, but most people runn= ing a high performance rotary do both plugs at once anyway. He has a newer dual in one box system, FOR AIRCRAFT = that could be run simultaneously to do a split fire and be fully redundant.
Bill Jepson 
 

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= wrote:
Maybe someone out there has a RWS original ignition controller they want to= let go of. No programming required, uses 13-B standard pickup and ignition= coils. Of course you'll have to use carburetor(s).

I have one, but really don't want to let go if it. Its simplicity is nice i= f just want to get 13-B running. (All you have to do is set timing and tune= carburetors.)

Finn

On 1/22/2018 11:31 PM, william Aldridge willja67@hotmail.com wrote:
 I'm building a one off experimental, therefore, i need a simple = bullet proof Ignition system and am wondering what is currently available?&= nbsp; I have the 2007 version of Tracy's conversion manual in which he give= s the option of either using the stock distributor etc, or use a computerized ignition system with stock or Chevy ls coils.&n= bsp;

To reiterate, since the airframe is unproven i only want to be worried= about flying the plane not the engine. It's a small plane the size that wo= uld normally have 100hp installed (1200 lbs gross) so if I only have 150 hp= I'll still be doing good. In other words I'm willing to sacrifice a little power for a lot of reliability and= simplicity. 

I don't like the idea of the stock distributor, since there isn't much= room in the cowl and there's no redundancy. I also don't like the idea of = electronic ignition. I've read enough stories of lengthy battles to get the= computers to play nice with the engine and don't want to go that route. Again simplicity and reliability a= t the expense of power and fuel efficiency is what I'm after. Also planning= on using a carb for the same reason. I can always upgrade the engine later= if i want. 

I figure there has to have been some other options come up in the last= 10 years. I used to subscribe to the other guys list, but don't know if an= y of the ideas he put forth have merit. 

Thanks, 
Will Aldridge 




Sent from my Veriz= on, Samsung Galaxy smartphone




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