X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=as3wMmRV c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=OEVJYw/obVdrmk2EYfkxnA==:117 a=b0WXXb1TpCRXX/ruI2YXbQ==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=CKeqCrOqW6IA:10 a=ocR9PWop10UA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=R59yowW3Gx6zRcS7FwwA:9 a=ZCJZdwfjQR_Kx-p-:21 a=QaQEvRvAIWsVQrGN:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pf0-f182.google.com ([209.85.192.182] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.1) with ESMTPS id 10493381 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 30 Dec 2017 03:05:52 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.192.182; envelope-from=stephen.izett@gmail.com Received: by mail-pf0-f182.google.com with SMTP id d23so22901169pfe.9 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2017 00:05:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=qn5jXKs8xgOUtB33Q/3Vc9I+m5HfEWtjefLXo1eV/LE=; b=evuSK/o7XlekkaDANhTEEZpbb956gTiu/qKkH3gaiOQ8vijB8GDRhWjHvgkEEt64pn 9bt9+dQ2h4yvFJsqyQZ2x77t0YeeWQBTupOJx0FOjpIioCz13B6CFIuy6Tzvqh6XXTAP 5IUCGAyVru3rK8C0RoR1mH6QaEKlukyKmNfRse21pjtc+Y4KBOwb1w4oC6UtMSHKJBPL eY8q2dVXAbOJCtdpkGHkPeuAP4csHWFdgQ4ZJT0aEo+b1oSb7CVo/E4+BiWZN9tlbMki r/K7muYY+ZWPtUXDq32veHcNMPxvR2cOfg3ySQwiBaxBEGjcAStSXMLycBRMHnYop0Ay KfPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=qn5jXKs8xgOUtB33Q/3Vc9I+m5HfEWtjefLXo1eV/LE=; b=CuemlL5rVaAae1gXskYcujcUyzFlbgaPssQmhwJ352AC64Au3L+Q/vgcnPxPjPZORn OxZffGGtuwV1HXaiQHdu3m609g//yPR/AFklLiBj+/B3j4LnxeFkNHDezsjhIYd46Ong VIYoS4RRwEy/JXG/Q2jrzW2ZCEb3rhvmXC6MpVW0spnI9ZdCcwzticJg2eK97RQ/e+n+ LQf5nZKoIGYYfesJwAvcbo6OLZvJDcKgLkOp+mAtUgKs6l7t05/fGlBpmN8zZc4U6T55 4k/lvGfK7kmWyArx3VQxDZ1wYsjJxxPIFydH/OMK/ALx3a1KGegE0x2z3J47NaJ3uaQh VYcg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIe3sKthIfl/TAnY8PHPjvaVLia43GKzlsrRtD5yLyTZBbVYgHo EHd4PHwJFMRwu50r4l5AosqB9Iat X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBoto5QUFMBNNyaSAK371hvETvrcaIfkrC9he+lOVNXoT9Trwn7u9DutplE1JDO42vD47r8daKw== X-Received: by 10.98.34.85 with SMTP id i82mr37508870pfi.57.1514621135763; Sat, 30 Dec 2017 00:05:35 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from [10.1.1.29] (220-253-221-100.dyn.iinet.net.au. [220.253.221.100]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r13sm82701111pfl.157.2017.12.30.00.05.34 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 30 Dec 2017 00:05:35 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling Issues Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 16:05:31 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <86B0AF2A-7389-4841-A283-6FAE3362640D@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Hi Steve & Lynn I got a moment today so went to the hangar and:=20 1. Measured the right cheek inlet. Fudged due to shape I now think its total area is 22 in^2 and I=E2=80=99m = currently using 18 in^2 due to the air feed to coils and alt. So there is a possible 20+% available but not sure what the inlet will = do close to the spinner. 2. I hung some wool in front of the cowl cheek as Lynn suggested. One at = each end about an inch in and another in the middle. The outside piece was clearly blowing or sucked into the diffuser. The = middle one was barely wanting to go in, and the one closest to the = spinner was all over the shop. At an OAT of 90F the water out of the engine got to 225F in 10 minutes. = 2000 engine rpm fine pitch. Thanks for the info on pressures at 2400rpm. I=E2=80=99ll be very interested to see what I=E2=80=99m getting inside = the diffusers.=20 The cowl was pretty much zero at 2000rpm and then -0.5 inch H2O at about = 6000rpm. Steve Izett > On 30 Dec 2017, at 3:32 pm, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu = wrote: >=20 > Steve, >=20 > The test stand load was a 3 blade Warp Drive HP prop. The = engine-reduction drive assembly was mounted such that it was free to = rotate on an axis collinear with the engine eccentric shaft but the = rotation was constrained by a load cell. The load cell measured the = torque which, along with the prop RPM, allowed the HP to be calculated. >=20 > The prop blast supplied the cooling air to the radiator and oil cooler = ducts. The pressure on each side of the heat exchanger core was = measured using piccolo tubes across the core. The piccolo tube holes = were 1/16" dia at a 1" spacing. The holes were oriented perpendicular = to the air flow through the core. Each piccolo tube was connected to = one side of a differential pressure transducer while the other side of = the transducer was open to the atmosphere. It would have been possible = to measure the delta P directly using just one differential pressure = transducer for each core, but I was interested in the absolute pressures = as well as the delta P. >=20 > The same setup was used in the plane to measure the pressure at the = inlet side of the core of GM AC evaporator cores used as radiators = behind short ducts with stock cowl nostril inlets. In flight, the = pressure at the core face was about 80% of the pressure measured by the = airframe pitot tube. With an in flight pitot pressure of about 10 = "H2O, the pressure in front of each radiator core was about 8 "H2O and = the pressure inside the upper cowl (not near the radiators or cowl = outlet) was about 4 "H2O, all relative to the airframe static source. = During stationary run up with a prop RPM of 2400, the pressure = recovered at the left radiator core was about 1.8 "H2O while the = pressure at the right radiator core was about 1.5 "H2O. Overheating at = ide or while taxiing was normally not a problem. Take off and climb = cooling was marginal at OAT over 70 deg while cooling at cruise was = good. I have since changed to a belly scoop system with much improved = take off and climb cooling. =20 >=20 > I don't know of a convention for expressing inlet area with respect to = the lip shape. An inlet duct divergent area change from 16.5 sq in to = 27 sq in in a short distance indicated the potential for air flow = separation from the duct wall and turbulence in the duct at the air flow = velocities likely to be generated in flight. =46rom your additional = description, this would not seem to be a concern. >=20 > Steve Boese > RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 >=20 >=20 > =20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft on = behalf of Stephen Izett = stephen.izett@gmail.com > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2017 6:44 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling Issues > =20 > Hi Steve >=20 > I took a moment and estimated the total duct scaled from the drawing = as being about 18.5 in^2 (Prop Flange is I think 6 in) > Then I have taken away 2 in^2 for feeding the coils/alternator. > It=E2=80=99s that 2 in^2 I=E2=80=99ll redeem for water cooling and = move the coiling air for the coils/alternator. > I just realised to that I should probably be feeding the coils and = alternator from diffused (slowed) air and not from free stream air. >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve always measured from the inside minimum neck of the entry = and not included the lips. What is the convention? > You appear to have measured from the outside of the flange which I = measure to be about 27 inch^2. >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve wondered how effective the inlet area right against the = prop spinner will be at cruise.=20 >=20 > Steve