X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=JJZ5iICb c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=AQZ4pXRFgIsjwRn0Ci6Jog==:117 a=6JOS4R8FmlYphJe9m6qqbw==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=sC3jslCIGhcA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=C_IRinGWAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=IR9AteWowZWEXDNrIHYA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=-i5DY3sYueO7T5-dRxoA:9 a=UVOrHGfX9SJiXI7p:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-yw0-f172.google.com ([209.85.161.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c5) with ESMTPS id 10329837 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 23:48:27 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.172; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-yw0-f172.google.com with SMTP id q126so2421333ywq.10 for ; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 20:48:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=vMd7cClZJzhUF2Tecj+gxEOoGqsgiziuY8qhsX0atNI=; b=tDQP7Joouj7zH8Yuw05mGTHrIWM7EUDaFZAU8RYtv1XPC/8JYKBFq5ceC/lA1lq/dZ /6f1J/u0Ua5ZyvfB6A27sBUH0ElFjyqZ3K9BTXrs7OY2SeXXj6xBW9MUy3ibPn3LtuwK MV0DPAonOlYM3I9D5De4phsslp+kiyUeiltH/TUOIu7kLHFr7XfwzuhpLojshcOPGR/h 2AhQK1hykhsPVrSFSKQZeErB2s8RN5R1LneU/YWHTqyZ/V9WjDYuWWX0zXqGcRgzfRfO Em9PNH2jJp4bh3/ts7sFF6IP1MNbdgiSUBlJGtjMRHuLO8uQEAkVa20Ey/KJ/SZrIY0N 3chw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=vMd7cClZJzhUF2Tecj+gxEOoGqsgiziuY8qhsX0atNI=; b=SwbKjUb85Z5OKhSCVd6n7AAm2qpidrZxordmR7+ziKADL+qpTgqEEzL/G039hNHWL3 w4waQdyynWAwqcCYPVPvGkLmUSQuV0PH+BNzNUGGF1p0CzKYnSW3iDCZCOH9GpIxDP+c aHL59hDWGCApFIg6HpbQWPBG7e93aIw+sSqqkJOZdltLtJCr+nVrqIDbLDXnwzEPU32o O25tuDEv8MmrnaVtJdKZ5kwZLPR9kLxzI1m+dKvOVXJ0xsQSY04l8LNN7sRhD09m64wS LzXEPrrmRKjEpQ6qhrKLpjbKiHGp+p3w7VADlKYxPhmr+24qbYYLe/h1KLFxuPSKAT/N I02w== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5/Gm5e/6TKMl7UbUY37kbsN3z0K0J1ff9t+gwEFuSC2aDRCeH2 zu9gn63j1rlXZL/rhtDNCYHS2GfM X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbZthFv0gduXE8YkbZS7p34KgUN9ZxRuABWkPUxy4orwJ/QnRKVra4Ujowj/sKUaiIgF5qpkw== X-Received: by 10.129.65.5 with SMTP id o5mr4906161ywa.476.1510980491219; Fri, 17 Nov 2017 20:48:11 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.10.217] (mobile-166-170-56-167.mycingular.net. [166.170.56.167]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id c11sm2281093ywb.106.2017.11.17.20.48.09 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 17 Nov 2017 20:48:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: pre-filter for injection pump? To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <53f43118-61c3-8453-504a-7e32643b10be@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2017 22:52:41 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B324ABEC31A8FC83743EB7E5" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 171117-4, 11/17/2017), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B324ABEC31A8FC83743EB7E5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Unfortunately, you can. At some combination of increased temperature and reduced pressure, the fuel will flash into vapor. (So will water, but hopefully not while in the fuel line.) I rechecked the Walbro GSL393's flow; it's 155 liters/hour, or ~41 GPH. With mechanical regulators, it always flows roughly that much. The regulator just bypasses the vast majority back to the tank. But all of it has to go through the pre-filter, first. Now, what I don't know is whether there's enough flow resistance in the supply line & filter to cause that vapor transition. I doubt there is, but it would be good to know for sure. Charlie On 11/17/2017 9:25 PM, David COOK hoursaway1@comcast.net wrote: > > Do not forget, you can't pull a vacuum on a liquid, the fluid will > draw itself through (maybe not 60GPH = 3/8" line but 20GPH = 3/8" line > sure = $$ fuel bill ).  David R. Cook  RV6A Rotary. > >> On November 17, 2017 at 10:06 AM "Charlie England >> ceengland7@gmail.com" wrote: >> >> Hey Ron, are you running yours yet? I just did a quick & dirty >> gravity flow test on mine, & I'm getting around 35 seconds to flow 16 >> ounces. If my math's right, that's only about 13 gal/hr, & the >> Walbros will be pulling 3 or 4 times that flow. Now I'm wondering how >> much pressure drop will show up between the filter & the Walbro. >> >> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com >> > > wrote: >> >> Excellent idea. I think I can work with that, so I may just use >> the glass filter. At least there's a chance I can place it so >> it's in view when I get in the plane. That should help avoid the >> risk of it getting completely clogged before I detect it. >> >> Charlie >> >> On 11/12/2017 1:31 PM, Ron Springer ron228rj@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> Charlie, >>> >>> I put safety wire on my glass filter joining the two end caps. >>> It doesn't prevent them from turning but it prevents them from >>> getting further apart, which would eventually stop them from >>> turning. >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> On Nov 12, 2017 10:46 AM, "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com >>> " >> > wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Bill, but I wouldn't just have to come out of >>> retirement; I'd need another whole career. :-) >>> >>> With an RV, the lowest points in the fuel system are the >>> sumps on the tanks, so water separation would be redundant. >>> And I just can't make myself pay $200-$400 for a fuel filter. >>> >>> My biggest misgivings about the little $10 glass body >>> filters are the somewhat limited filter area (but still >>> better than some of the 'racing' filters that have a little >>> 3/8" disc), and the fact that they screw together with no >>> easy way to safety them from unscrewing. The latter is more >>> paranoia than a real issue; I've been running one for years >>> on the Lyc with no issues. One thing I do like is the >>> ability to actually see any trash accumulation. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Charlie >>> >>> >>> On 11/12/2017 9:30 AM, Bill Schertz wschertz343@gmail.com >>> wrote: >>>> I used an Andair gascolator. >>>> *From:* mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net >>>> >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 12, 2017 7:59 AM >>>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> >>>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] pre-filter for injection pump? >>>> What's being used for the ~100 micron pre-filter feeding >>>> your Walbros? I'm running one of those glass body >>>> cylindrical models on my Lyc powered RV, and it's been >>>> fine, but I'm open to better options as long as I don't >>>> have to come out of retirement to afford them. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Charlie >>> >>> >>> >>> Virus-free. www.avast.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------------B324ABEC31A8FC83743EB7E5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Unfortunately, you can. At some combination of increased temperature and reduced pressure, the fuel will flash into vapor. (So will water, but hopefully not while in the fuel line.)

I rechecked the Walbro GSL393's flow; it's 155 liters/hour, or ~41 GPH. With mechanical regulators, it always flows roughly that much. The regulator just bypasses the vast majority back to the tank. But all of it has to go through the pre-filter, first.

Now, what I don't know is whether there's enough flow resistance in the supply line & filter to cause that vapor transition. I doubt there is, but it would be good to know for sure.

Charlie

On 11/17/2017 9:25 PM, David COOK hoursaway1@comcast.net wrote:

Do not forget, you can't pull a vacuum on a liquid, the fluid will draw itself through (maybe not 60GPH = 3/8" line but 20GPH = 3/8" line sure = $$ fuel bill ).  David R. Cook  RV6A Rotary.

On November 17, 2017 at 10:06 AM "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hey Ron, are you running yours yet? I just did a quick & dirty gravity flow test on mine, & I'm getting around 35 seconds to flow 16 ounces. If my math's right, that's only about 13 gal/hr, & the Walbros will be pulling 3 or 4 times that flow. Now I'm wondering how much pressure drop will show up between the filter & the Walbro.

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Excellent idea. I think I can work with that, so I may just use the glass filter. At least there's a chance I can place it so it's in view when I get in the plane. That should help avoid the risk of it getting completely clogged before I detect it.

Charlie

On 11/12/2017 1:31 PM, Ron Springer ron228rj@gmail.com wrote:
Charlie,

I put safety wire on my glass filter joining the two end caps. It doesn't prevent them from turning but it prevents them from getting further apart, which would eventually stop them from turning. 

Ron

On Nov 12, 2017 10:46 AM, "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Thanks Bill, but I wouldn't just have to come out of retirement; I'd need another whole career. :-)

With an RV, the lowest points in the fuel system are the sumps on the tanks, so water separation would be redundant. And I just can't make myself pay $200-$400 for a fuel filter.

My biggest misgivings about the little $10 glass body filters are the somewhat limited filter area (but still better than some of the 'racing' filters that have a little 3/8" disc), and the fact that they screw together with no easy way to safety them from unscrewing. The latter is more paranoia than a real issue; I've been running one for years on the Lyc with no issues. One thing I do like is the ability to actually see any trash accumulation.

Thanks,

Charlie


On 11/12/2017 9:30 AM, Bill Schertz wschertz343@gmail.com wrote:
I used an Andair gascolator.
 
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 7:59 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] pre-filter for injection pump?
 
What's being used for the ~100 micron pre-filter feeding your Walbros? I'm running one of those glass body cylindrical models on my Lyc powered RV, and it's been fine, but I'm open to better options as long as I don't have to come out of retirement to afford them.
 
Thanks,
 
Charlie


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