X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=ApKs561P c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=v7rgzXzNjx5eoLR7qwsCJQ==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=2JCJgTwv5E4A:10 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=q5xRIvp19fq8CG0VChoA:9 a=Q6LK7Qb8TXtxHYXZ:21 a=CKICNFkcwr15z9Ys:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=_V7L5U6xXFcfOiFg:21 a=oHFeXatXA3RlPfBz:21 a=4lNOL1GCcnYEZRjD:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Ernest Christley echristley@att.net" Received: from sonic307-12.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.137.64.36] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c4) with ESMTP id 10152748 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 12:59:09 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.137.64.36; envelope-from=echristley@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1506531513; bh=fD+y2L9iG/BW74jVw8WBhXiwu24zMpJMuPWvdA36UUA=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=UKjOMD0cR+3ciFNZEU5FDOai9/FE3+aAvC+2g8lvRp9PGLpCz0fp5AYibIPl1XUdtBB+T6qfcJ0muaDKWvF4g8Eied2qwh2X1WVmH8npmJpno4p5CfjVWkqkbMqoWZGvVo7Kz2lwfmifFPGdqt2rHO1UElb2vAogOBEC8qgPJa0= X-YMail-OSG: jcE3hwwVM1k36o6pY83STH9krqZin0AZd7wZ3S7a2NAE0WE0jLCbtRyIy9Khb0e 3yw3EuyInes5fsXxrtdFeW0ACQ6.IkqB2Pe0pOoiv8QbTg1Je_R6q.OSORiFgVDvh10eWMjQ6gDd Fmp2wOhEkmA2_ukGn1DH2oNRGKB2xOwtQFRLMfhNqkwIYLRBOvxlIqcEo6hK5uTWPA2F9kRUIBt1 JqAd1LfOSki6E4phj.YS84y_bb9H8Na8XG4n7wN3xyUyhL5lRHdLDEZ5pNPhmCAt5fc.iqKmZmfZ 47.jomn..6gUHOcEvDWt4h6qzRBap.tgBa3yV1mUw0tzM4o6OtgQxkJKHfm1CodiTSEvL.hAbIdy MyriC8KDXQ2OKbh.76lNmPNsBPL4ggWmghelUbczGizdMSvf4X35WHyEY3h5tKDRsHZibvI01QXX .itwS1Fxyx_HpGvEyl91q3sRiYi2ghxep4dwLOve8nq4T2Z.T2Q-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:58:33 +0000 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 16:58:23 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <2145322808.10444485.1506531503311@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: spark plug SAG: would this help? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10444484_10105115.1506531503309" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.10521 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_11_6) AppleWebKit/604.1.38 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/11.0 Safari/604.1.38 Content-Length: 8729 ------=_Part_10444484_10105115.1506531503309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Given the danger of a little silicon grease in the wrong place, =C2=A0might= a better solution be a blast tube of fresh air and cutting back any boot o= n the plug wire?=20 On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:42 PM, "Subscriber Lehanover@aol.co= m" wrote: =20 So long as the thermal paste is kept off of the electrode area. The paste= is electrically conductive as well. None on the plug body. Once you have i= t inside a wire sleeve, you cannot clean it out. Throw that wire away and s= tart over. Reduce the torque on the plug by about 10% as the paste is a gre= at lubricant. =C2=A0Autolite Racing plugs are about $10.00 for 4 plugs. Hea= t range about the same as an NGK 10.=C2=A0 The gap is difficult to change a= s the ground electrode is cut back to expose the end of the center electrod= e.Autolite number AR 2592.=C2=A0 Most parts=C2=A0stores can have these for = you overnight. =C2=A0The point of colder heat range plugs is that the car d= uty cycle is quite low, or less than 30%, while the aircraft may be close t= o 100%. You seldom jump into an RX-7 and drive for an hour at full throttle= , but you can do that in a rotary powered airplane. Even race cars can have= lower duty cycles than airplanes.=C2=A0Rotaries fire the plugs every revol= ution of the crank, like a 2 stoke. Overheated plugs cause lateral cracks t= o appear through the plug holes in the chrome.=C2=A0I found a set of Champi= on N-57G. Gold Pladium fine wire center electrode. We ran these years ago. = No longer=C2=A0available. Came out of the box gapped at .012" . =C2=A0One a= dvantage of the NGKs is the long body. Great if you run a killer ignition s= ystem. Less chance of a stray lightning bolt close to the plugs. CD and CD = multi spark systems put out lethal=C2=A0voltages.=C2=A0Lynn E. Hanover=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0In a message dated 9/27/2017 11:42:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight = Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: Charlie, this subject has been brought up before but if anyone is going to = answer it you might have to wait 1-2 years for anything definitive on SAG.= =C2=A0 I suppose a temperature probe around a spark plug before/after would= determine if better heat transfer occurs. I personally use copper-coat on = my spark plugs as an anti-seize compound. Jeff OK, I really can't remember if I've brought this up. I've thought about pos= ting it, but I couldn't find any record of doing it. Forgive me if I'm repe= ating myself. On the subject of spark plug SAG, and the great research Steve Boese did se= veral years ago, it seemed that extreme temps in the plug itself was what i= s causing the quick degradation of the plugs. There was talk about running = colder plugs, and IIRC, Lynn mentioned high-dollar racing plugs as a potent= ial solution. As I've begun my research into operating a Rotax 503 2stroke, I discovered = that Rotax recommends using heat sink thermal-transfer paste on the spark p= lug threads of Rotax engines, to improve heat transfer out of the plugs. Th= ey even quote a temperature drop number for paste use. If it works for a Rotax,=C2=A0 I've been wondering if it would help with th= e rotary, running the coldest off-the-shelf (affordable) plugs. Any thoughts? Anyone care to try it? If you need a little to experiment wit= h, I've got a couple of lifetimes supply from one of my previous lives, & c= ould send you a bit. Charlie -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyro= tary/List.html =20 ------=_Part_10444484_10105115.1506531503309 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Given the danger of a little silicon grease in the wrong place,  might a better solution be a blast tube of fresh air and cutting back any boot on the plug wire?


On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:42 PM, "Subscriber Lehanover@aol.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


So long as the thermal paste is kept off of the electrode area. The paste is electrically conductive as well.
None on the plug body. Once you have it inside a wire sleeve, you cannot clean it out. Throw that wire away and start over.
Reduce the torque on the plug by about 10% as the paste is a great lubricant.
 
Autolite Racing plugs are about $10.00 for 4 plugs. Heat range about the same as an NGK 10.  The gap is difficult to change as the ground electrode is cut back to expose the end of the center electrode.
Autolite number AR 2592.  Most parts stores can have these for you overnight.
 
The point of colder heat range plugs is that the car duty cycle is quite low, or less than 30%, while the aircraft may be close to 100%. You seldom jump into an RX-7 and drive for an hour at full throttle, but you can do that in a rotary powered airplane. Even race cars can have lower duty cycles than airplanes. 
Rotaries fire the plugs every revolution of the crank, like a 2 stoke. Overheated plugs cause lateral cracks to appear through the plug holes in the chrome.
 
I found a set of Champion N-57G. Gold Pladium fine wire center electrode. We ran these years ago. No longer available. Came out of the box gapped at .012" .
 
One advantage of the NGKs is the long body. Great if you run a killer ignition system. Less chance of a stray lightning bolt close to the plugs. CD and CD multi spark systems put out lethal voltages.
 
Lynn E. Hanover  
 
In a message dated 9/27/2017 11:42:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
Charlie, this subject has been brought up before but if anyone is going to answer it you might have to wait 1-2 years for anything definitive on SAG.  I suppose a temperature probe around a spark plug before/after would determine if better heat transfer occurs. I personally use copper-coat on my spark plugs as an anti-seize compound.
Jeff


OK, I really can't remember if I've brought this up. I've thought about posting it, but I couldn't find any record of doing it. Forgive me if I'm repeating myself.

On the subject of spark plug SAG, and the great research Steve Boese did several years ago, it seemed that extreme temps in the plug itself was what is causing the quick degradation of the plugs. There was talk about running colder plugs, and IIRC, Lynn mentioned high-dollar racing plugs as a potential solution.

As I've begun my research into operating a Rotax 503 2stroke, I discovered that Rotax recommends using heat sink thermal-transfer paste on the spark plug threads of Rotax engines, to improve heat transfer out of the plugs. They even quote a temperature drop number for paste use.

If it works for a Rotax,  I've been wondering if it would help with the rotary, running the coldest off-the-shelf (affordable) plugs.

Any thoughts? Anyone care to try it? If you need a little to experiment with, I've got a couple of lifetimes supply from one of my previous lives, & could send you a bit.

Charlie

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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