X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=OfraNVbY c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=EilHKTVedgW2Mugw/G81ug==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=oSMvVwY2MYMA:10 a=KeKAF7QvOSUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=jKJNXZ9me8XA2LM-MIAA:9 a=7Zwj6sZBwVKJAoWSPKxL6X1jA+E=:19 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=kA_muiLyzyWGVHR9SskA:9 a=h7uIuaDFRtXHpgdJ:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "David Leonard" Received: from mail-qt0-f174.google.com ([209.85.216.174] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 10072338 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 21:13:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.174; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-qt0-f174.google.com with SMTP id v20so5527135qtg.3 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:13:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=pI89tsurlaSdqLx1UMYB4boToX4tEU/FV/FL7ZD6Nnk=; b=tOOxX3ngfBbNE+hEXi+mMdmhpjE2wzboaEzRNzuHw2LLSueyzkDfkZimQV78yz6zlR VEmB3D7/pRwaG2loo8oKb3ppYR5Ne+CwK6UKzD9dvFuuIsV8jVYZTKIzPIZcPLzbb/6X Zxpv76iHO6n+sW2RbNuA3WkwA91KTUgA24zL2EHdil1P/B3WlSmUYxGFJxGKIcPl7Wr7 boc8iymQtWJxbAV0KT7sSQIhUX5iJSK4aiKc7wMSvMJvC+JB1nhO6LipICUidN6Q8lBZ gAm4dEDDMHpiVnOjqPRMAm/C19Yh97Ub4Q9TzedbHRSNjFIxTAcpC0IRB4UgqoMdNv8I Q3WQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=pI89tsurlaSdqLx1UMYB4boToX4tEU/FV/FL7ZD6Nnk=; b=UaXFVEN7iGbyaXHJ0meEux6oFN+6m3QoFla/GoNHnhyCXKeadBjRHucFxiacpvUGcL kMjDWxC/Wusq4fr1UjswV1DTA55mdTbgjq+NqvNJ/6N9DqKDvcIR0cD0SVTp0tpEahYe 4Y7ZBQ8vHtdOHFICpU1BDRnSNBN2kOl/tTzfopsNld3Tb27P+axxze8d7dHnoYXH4GN7 6h/h5yWA4EKwhufka7/gPGkyWAl4c1XJjHo8vdW1EkCRYqok8lrt0tQfN0LaGfyvSLzG iFGr5YJ1EG+h6oYYoeQqYKgHxgUvirypL6jaI5Ku+0QijY9zkhgJ0uzGsTFf5LYnjwCk 4w/g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUi6GBGvOcRLqC1s6qlU43du9Rh6yo42FwV1Z+91A6vJPSOT85X1 ked8zg5DYzIE3NNURp6xDC3u8JUU7g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb6q7qAPsAlTfbFLNvrtl6g+eV9Karxlie81K/BYDiM0foMcjGTufv1/XMRWFZ4gwFhfME5hVqODKCgk9rfbKhU= X-Received: by 10.200.55.130 with SMTP id d2mr470061qtc.65.1504228402565; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:13:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.200.25.202 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:13:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 18:13:21 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Heat Soak & Fuel Purge valve- Another half baked idea? To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113d152698956605581677ea" --001a113d152698956605581677ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Todd, I did get a TIG and was very happy with the selection of TIG over MIG or stick methods once I learned a little more about it (as in - its the only one applicable to most of my needs...). I have become adept enough to make ugly globs of metal on just about any surface I choose.... ;-) Dave On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Todd Bartrim wrote: > Hi Dave; > Happy to see you back on the list as well. I think the last we heard from > you was when you were looking to buy a TIG welder. How did that work out > for you? Hearing about you guys flying up to be in the eclipse path is a > great story for those who are currently ground bound. I'm looking forward > to getting back up there. > Thanks for the fuel diagram. It's a what I would probably have done if > I hadn't gone with all these tanks, and should probably still do it. > I'll answer in detail in another post with a fuel diagram. > > I hope everybody managed to get through the storm OK? > > Todd > > > Todd Bartrim > > On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 2:04 PM, David Leonard < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> I agree with Matt. The high pressure high flow system is one of the >> strengths of going with an alternate engine. Besides eliminating any >> possibility of vapor lock, it also provides protection against such >> malaties as water contamination and un-mixed 2-stroke oil. >> >> The pluming is not particularly difficult, especially when compared to >> some of the options you are considering here. I just have a single return >> line that returns to the left tank, eliminating the need for a 2 control >> valves. That means that when I am on the right tank I am transferring fuel >> to the left which leaves open the possibility of overflow out the vent, but >> I always set a timer and it has not been a problem for me. >> >> When fueling away from home, it is difficult to get the 2-stroke oil to >> mix well, even with rocking the plane. The high flow system mixes it >> quickly in the the left tank, but when I switch to the right I often get >> several seconds of rough running now matter how much I try to shake and >> shimmy first. If it were not for the high flow system, those several >> seconds of rough running would turn into nearly a full minute. That would >> be NO fun!!! >> >> Glad to see you back at it Todd! >> >> Trip report: I just flew my RV-6 up to Idaho for the eclipse. We stayed >> at a place with a private dirt strip in the Sawtooth Mountains at 5200'. >> Epic experience. Very hot sometimes and I was glad to have a return flow >> system. >> >> Dave Leonard >> Turbo Rotary RV-6 >> coming up on 1000 hrs soon..... >> >> On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 5:23 AM, Matt Boiteau < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> What was your reason to go return-less? >>> >>> I have 4 tanks in the wings split between the middle spar. Front left & >>> right, Back left & right. Instead of having a selector valve for each tank >>> (plus their return lines), I made 1 tank the main header tank. Fuel >>> supplies and returns to it. And the rest of the tanks feed the main tank >>> using transfer pump. No selector valve, full return system. >>> >>> -Matt Boiteau >>> >>> On Aug 22, 2017 17:36, "Todd Bartrim" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> By opening manually, I meant just opening the oil hatch on the top of >>>> the RV cowl to let it cool. With that up in the air it would be difficult >>>> to miss and if I did miss it during a pre-flight, then I'd probably not be >>>> doing a good job of my pre-flight inspection. >>>> But I do think it's a good idea and one that I may have given more >>>> serious consideration to if I'd known about it earlier this year when I was >>>> doing fiberglass work on the cowl. >>>> At this point though it looks pretty easy for me to add the fuel purge >>>> to the injector header, so unless somebody talks me back from the ledge, >>>> I'm probably going to jump. Just as soon as I finish a solar mod on my boat >>>> so I can take my kid fishing tomorrow. >>>> >>>> Todd >>>> >>>> Todd Bartrim >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Thomas Mann < >>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >Cheaper, lighter and probably safer to just open the door manually. >>>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>>> ______________ >>>>> Cheaper: Depending on the alternative? Probably >>>>> Lighter: Again, depending on the alternative???? >>>>> Safer: Doubtful. These things are pretty much foolproof and have been >>>>> used in aircraft already for just this purpose. >>>>> With a front hinged vent door I cannot see a benefit to using a >>>>> manual mechanical method of operation. >>>>> If you do use a mechanical actuator ..... don't forget to come >>>>> back and close it. >>>>> >>>>> All in all, it's sounds as those this would not be a good solution for >>>>> you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >> > --001a113d152698956605581677ea Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Todd,
I did get a TIG and was very happy with the s= election of TIG over MIG or stick =C2=A0methods once I learned a little mor= e about it (as in - its the only one applicable to most of my needs...).=C2= =A0 I have become adept enough to make ugly globs of metal on just about an= y surface I choose.... =C2=A0;-)

Dave
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Thu, Aug 31, 20= 17 at 1:53 PM, Todd Bartrim <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= wrote:
Hi Dave;<= div>=C2=A0Happy to see you back on the list as well. I think the last we he= ard from you was when you were looking to buy a TIG welder. How did that wo= rk out for you? Hearing about you guys flying up to be in the eclipse path = is a great story for those who are currently ground bound. I'm looking = forward to getting back up there.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks for the fue= l diagram. It's a what I would probably have done if I hadn't gone = with all these tanks, and should probably still do it.
I'll a= nswer in detail in another post with a fuel diagram.

I hope everybody managed to get through the storm OK?

Todd

=

Todd = Bartrim

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 2:04 PM, David Leona= rd <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I agree with Matt.=C2=A0 The high = pressure high flow system is one of the strengths of going with an alternat= e engine.=C2=A0 Besides eliminating any possibility of vapor lock, it also = provides protection against such malaties as water contamination and un-mix= ed 2-stroke oil.

The pluming is not particularly difficu= lt, especially when compared to some of the options you are considering her= e.=C2=A0 I just have a single return line that returns to the left tank, el= iminating the need for a 2 control valves.=C2=A0 That means that when I am = on the right tank I am transferring fuel to the left which leaves open the = possibility of overflow out the vent, but I always set a timer and it has n= ot been a problem for me.

When fueling away from h= ome, it is difficult to get the 2-stroke oil to mix well, even with rocking= the plane.=C2=A0 The high flow system mixes it quickly in the the left tan= k, but when I switch to the right I often get several seconds of rough runn= ing now matter how much I try to shake and shimmy first.=C2=A0 If it were n= ot for the high flow system, those several seconds of rough running would t= urn into nearly a full minute.=C2=A0 That would be NO fun!!!

=
Glad to see you back at it Todd!

Trip report: = I just flew my RV-6 up to Idaho for the eclipse.=C2=A0 We stayed at a place= with a private dirt strip in the Sawtooth Mountains at 5200'.=C2=A0 Ep= ic experience.=C2=A0 Very hot sometimes and I was glad to have a return flo= w system.

Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6=
coming up on 1000 hrs soon.....=C2=A0

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017= at 5:23 AM, Matt Boiteau <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Wh= at was your reason to go return-less?

I have 4 tanks in the wings sp= lit between the middle spar. Front left & right, Back left & right.= Instead of having a selector valve for each tank (plus their return lines)= , I made 1 tank the main header tank. Fuel supplies and returns to it. And = the rest of the tanks feed the main tank using transfer pump. No selector v= alve, full return system.

-M= att Boiteau

On = Aug 22, 2017 17:36, "Todd Bartrim" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:
By opening = manually, I meant just opening the oil hatch on the top of the RV cowl to l= et it cool. With that up in the air it would be difficult to miss and if I = did miss it during a pre-flight, then I'd probably not be doing a good = job of my pre-flight inspection.
But I do think it's a good idea an= d one that I may have given more serious consideration to if I'd known = about it earlier this year when I was doing fiberglass work on the cowl.
At this point though it looks pretty easy for me to add the fuel pu= rge to the injector header, so unless somebody talks me back from the ledge= , I'm probably going to jump. Just as soon as I finish a solar mod on m= y boat so I can take my kid fishing tomorrow.

Todd=

Todd Bartrim

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Thomas Man= n <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>Cheaper, lighter and proba= bly safer to just open the door manually.
____________________________________________________________= ______________
Cheaper: Depending on the alternative? Probably
Lighter: Again, depending on the alternative????
Safer: Doubtful. These things are pretty much foolproof and have been used = in aircraft already for just this purpose.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 With a front hinged vent door I cannot= see a benefit to using a manual mechanical method of operation.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If you do use a mechanical actuator ..= ... don't forget to come back and close it.
=C2=A0
All in all, it's sounds as those this would not be a good solution= for you.
=C2=A0




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