X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=OfraNVbY c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=lhC8jI9inzCNA/sfSJWlfw==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=xXDCcK6TKBsA:10 a=KeKAF7QvOSUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7CmZST84C4ddBOKKW38A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=T3ADr_yizFYNRHMvfskA:9 a=tCPCw-mMeb-zaP8y:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "Todd Bartrim" Received: from mail-wm0-f49.google.com ([74.125.82.49] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 10071616 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 16:53:40 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.49; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-wm0-f49.google.com with SMTP id v2so4780019wmf.0 for ; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 13:53:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ZAy0wZdES9MN+lVevs2NFHxuaVFci0dpVbRrfl1+p4w=; b=IcIjxC1lfJqrKHRnqBa+sikQDzQ30o2FsLLqnBBfkyymyk5dSkX+G48IJAi0uviY1c 9ZQxIOa1pqSvs0ihFTVCQIUa8vla/iLPVsvIZUTwV2qsdtnfwE90t/uOaK0m0H6h7B1v flrEqC9/9VYkiLI24dZB/YVsqa1P6KTSelrwJLNb5kTs7KfTfyYDrnO+OtMWJjJlYXbE Cruxb+PNxk735HCzBN0sIfbWSCPaNcfRA+gSgDjKTDAfO41E1Bq5f+p3ra7vEfMpMPGa IUsm2zbMbof6RmIeyIG3QFqtu06CON9MgKZ2mj7IfWcdxrjPYa5xImJOP/4EirXXNt9j Dkrw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ZAy0wZdES9MN+lVevs2NFHxuaVFci0dpVbRrfl1+p4w=; b=XFrM5akUl21Hkfeuy2BseUXSt0DZkPV2ccsmcUTxfLqpirZO053YObR0b6Q9xGqYx6 8nysmXBhLcWrR1+sJF8oELtgLowq+1Eo+4755i9B2hF4Xzf6E4wLRHjOYsGhuQ3mCEUF vFoQdG8rZufcPSn0suydQ7CPgvzFguMt0m36OK/Rzp7bR75ftK4OcPmqRvbXPRYpihOy dHsxaRS8ToLlEQDywAUBs1ME/uJesAY50dq0qY6uTF9VCxk9jFomlxmHTlxvfjC7vOAs wIFV8CsPOrgnkCD2dla96xCz7JcgsxfrXfFkEzW/5ARzDilkn3qD11S1G9ZGwa/rTesJ dHCg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5hdkyaRhhRmzsCkq3jKxdsCb/+9C5B2cRuYxgobVany5ilCboiy zLfyAVesBd2XYbeclFxWF4CXfFx2PA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb5SFY2Ew9+pSpozmlJIreKkQcnDCleaV7cNwL3vpLFtcKorGHZPPeaztqHaDoXAwDqMuGbTetJiQIf0+H8Rgbg= X-Received: by 10.80.135.242 with SMTP id 47mr2482183edz.224.1504212802621; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 13:53:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.169.134 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Aug 2017 13:53:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2017 13:53:21 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Heat Soak & Fuel Purge valve- Another half baked idea? To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c294ac453fd055812d584" --f403045c294ac453fd055812d584 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Dave; Happy to see you back on the list as well. I think the last we heard from you was when you were looking to buy a TIG welder. How did that work out for you? Hearing about you guys flying up to be in the eclipse path is a great story for those who are currently ground bound. I'm looking forward to getting back up there. Thanks for the fuel diagram. It's a what I would probably have done if I hadn't gone with all these tanks, and should probably still do it. I'll answer in detail in another post with a fuel diagram. I hope everybody managed to get through the storm OK? Todd Todd Bartrim On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 2:04 PM, David Leonard wrote: > I agree with Matt. The high pressure high flow system is one of the > strengths of going with an alternate engine. Besides eliminating any > possibility of vapor lock, it also provides protection against such > malaties as water contamination and un-mixed 2-stroke oil. > > The pluming is not particularly difficult, especially when compared to > some of the options you are considering here. I just have a single return > line that returns to the left tank, eliminating the need for a 2 control > valves. That means that when I am on the right tank I am transferring fuel > to the left which leaves open the possibility of overflow out the vent, but > I always set a timer and it has not been a problem for me. > > When fueling away from home, it is difficult to get the 2-stroke oil to > mix well, even with rocking the plane. The high flow system mixes it > quickly in the the left tank, but when I switch to the right I often get > several seconds of rough running now matter how much I try to shake and > shimmy first. If it were not for the high flow system, those several > seconds of rough running would turn into nearly a full minute. That would > be NO fun!!! > > Glad to see you back at it Todd! > > Trip report: I just flew my RV-6 up to Idaho for the eclipse. We stayed > at a place with a private dirt strip in the Sawtooth Mountains at 5200'. > Epic experience. Very hot sometimes and I was glad to have a return flow > system. > > Dave Leonard > Turbo Rotary RV-6 > coming up on 1000 hrs soon..... > > On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 5:23 AM, Matt Boiteau > wrote: > >> What was your reason to go return-less? >> >> I have 4 tanks in the wings split between the middle spar. Front left & >> right, Back left & right. Instead of having a selector valve for each tank >> (plus their return lines), I made 1 tank the main header tank. Fuel >> supplies and returns to it. And the rest of the tanks feed the main tank >> using transfer pump. No selector valve, full return system. >> >> -Matt Boiteau >> >> On Aug 22, 2017 17:36, "Todd Bartrim" >> wrote: >> >>> By opening manually, I meant just opening the oil hatch on the top of >>> the RV cowl to let it cool. With that up in the air it would be difficult >>> to miss and if I did miss it during a pre-flight, then I'd probably not be >>> doing a good job of my pre-flight inspection. >>> But I do think it's a good idea and one that I may have given more >>> serious consideration to if I'd known about it earlier this year when I was >>> doing fiberglass work on the cowl. >>> At this point though it looks pretty easy for me to add the fuel purge >>> to the injector header, so unless somebody talks me back from the ledge, >>> I'm probably going to jump. Just as soon as I finish a solar mod on my boat >>> so I can take my kid fishing tomorrow. >>> >>> Todd >>> >>> Todd Bartrim >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Thomas Mann < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>>> >Cheaper, lighter and probably safer to just open the door manually. >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> ______________ >>>> Cheaper: Depending on the alternative? Probably >>>> Lighter: Again, depending on the alternative???? >>>> Safer: Doubtful. These things are pretty much foolproof and have been >>>> used in aircraft already for just this purpose. >>>> With a front hinged vent door I cannot see a benefit to using a >>>> manual mechanical method of operation. >>>> If you do use a mechanical actuator ..... don't forget to come >>>> back and close it. >>>> >>>> All in all, it's sounds as those this would not be a good solution for >>>> you. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > --f403045c294ac453fd055812d584 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dave;
=C2=A0Happy to see you back on the list as we= ll. I think the last we heard from you was when you were looking to buy a T= IG welder. How did that work out for you? Hearing about you guys flying up = to be in the eclipse path is a great story for those who are currently grou= nd bound. I'm looking forward to getting back up there.
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0Thanks for the fuel diagram. It's a what I would probably hav= e done if I hadn't gone with all these tanks, and should probably still= do it.
I'll answer in detail in another post with a fuel dia= gram.

I hope everybody managed to get through the = storm OK?

Todd


Todd Bartrim

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 2:04 PM, David Leona= rd <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I agree with Matt.=C2=A0 The high = pressure high flow system is one of the strengths of going with an alternat= e engine.=C2=A0 Besides eliminating any possibility of vapor lock, it also = provides protection against such malaties as water contamination and un-mix= ed 2-stroke oil.

The pluming is not particularly difficu= lt, especially when compared to some of the options you are considering her= e.=C2=A0 I just have a single return line that returns to the left tank, el= iminating the need for a 2 control valves.=C2=A0 That means that when I am = on the right tank I am transferring fuel to the left which leaves open the = possibility of overflow out the vent, but I always set a timer and it has n= ot been a problem for me.

When fueling away from h= ome, it is difficult to get the 2-stroke oil to mix well, even with rocking= the plane.=C2=A0 The high flow system mixes it quickly in the the left tan= k, but when I switch to the right I often get several seconds of rough runn= ing now matter how much I try to shake and shimmy first.=C2=A0 If it were n= ot for the high flow system, those several seconds of rough running would t= urn into nearly a full minute.=C2=A0 That would be NO fun!!!

=
Glad to see you back at it Todd!

Trip report: = I just flew my RV-6 up to Idaho for the eclipse.=C2=A0 We stayed at a place= with a private dirt strip in the Sawtooth Mountains at 5200'.=C2=A0 Ep= ic experience.=C2=A0 Very hot sometimes and I was glad to have a return flo= w system.

Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6=
coming up on 1000 hrs soon.....=C2=A0

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 5:23 AM, Matt Boiteau <flyr= otary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
What was your reason to go return-less?

I have 4 tanks in = the wings split between the middle spar. Front left & right, Back left = & right. Instead of having a selector valve for each tank (plus their r= eturn lines), I made 1 tank the main header tank. Fuel supplies and returns= to it. And the rest of the tanks feed the main tank using transfer pump. N= o selector valve, full return system.

-Matt Boiteau

On Aug 22, 2= 017 17:36, "Todd Bartrim" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
By opening = manually, I meant just opening the oil hatch on the top of the RV cowl to l= et it cool. With that up in the air it would be difficult to miss and if I = did miss it during a pre-flight, then I'd probably not be doing a good = job of my pre-flight inspection.
But I do think it's a good idea an= d one that I may have given more serious consideration to if I'd known = about it earlier this year when I was doing fiberglass work on the cowl.
At this point though it looks pretty easy for me to add the fuel pu= rge to the injector header, so unless somebody talks me back from the ledge= , I'm probably going to jump. Just as soon as I finish a solar mod on m= y boat so I can take my kid fishing tomorrow.

Todd=

Todd Bartrim

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Thomas Man= n <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>Cheaper, lighter and proba= bly safer to just open the door manually.
____________________________________________________________= ______________
Cheaper: Depending on the alternative? Probably
Lighter: Again, depending on the alternative????
Safer: Doubtful. These things are pretty much foolproof and have been used = in aircraft already for just this purpose.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 With a front hinged vent door I cannot= see a benefit to using a manual mechanical method of operation.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If you do use a mechanical actuator ..= ... don't forget to come back and close it.
=C2=A0
All in all, it's sounds as those this would not be a good solution= for you.
=C2=A0



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