X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=OfraNVbY c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=mzh8jw4uGN5zVroHMGaKPQ==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=oSMvVwY2MYMA:10 a=KeKAF7QvOSUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=9e07BDG62VQWeJ14ZccA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=tW8rcudB9ITE0C_vmQ0A:9 a=0h8K4rJGg_yCtrLq:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "David Leonard" Received: from mail-qt0-f182.google.com ([209.85.216.182] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 10065232 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 17:04:56 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.182; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-qt0-f182.google.com with SMTP id x36so20178716qtx.2 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 14:04:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2mwQrYCMiRDI8sY21Hi6K+3TL7rAp/8ymVy2l/odsY8=; b=BHjM5b+8wckGZxKf3msthkhfnnqjrgKxRGyLVvaWa9nI+waxEdiEwnoMliKoexheET s1T7rdXSqGE6zqKUmrtqyvGfPgewWhOG+HAI+EIUJnWie/HzK8nwt6kgwsc/u0yj3M6x 6EzCRAofuIGiyhLbgcK3YnQdUA5sCOey2dylIelmElsL1NFwHc2/nPKxuJh/9hovSMkQ D8t5OEM3lAi6JHeu//bJYiJUJJ36x8feVuaQ4AnviTH4xk7Cv3R7EmKbjuZBTG0loh+s l5ggSlgq1V4IUTjU9QOkpD1Bvnl+DUixj1DPLqpBcy3s+yydcmMp8y70ApOz5PmD7eq6 pOcQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=2mwQrYCMiRDI8sY21Hi6K+3TL7rAp/8ymVy2l/odsY8=; b=WjX45Ny3xQSiiTDuOk89BWAPlFWqz4srIYlxXuk2GR3p0qqWrwktZu9lT31q7zIsgC 3hU1Ylh7lYD+9JoPjBAtW+yBCA7873MB8QNoxqiYl88AN9OLHAxJCyxn9T1BNsMa0pCx PO6M8cgnPZbv0a9yWoZQp/FNMV1/eOjMZnwZZwevnlQ/xNKjc3yZXhPexy/TBLygDDMD 6uGcyu1JMxwfOHvPV7/bhrCb8MyGyDDg/ln3AX2RA5FZ3V7uHUJCdmXCRm30ObyITjfe hAKq03+Xkk4ARiLE4CiEQ3mMpMP8x5r2KSm7iWkfLGqtus4r7F1gETOEsT92kEFCCUbm LgNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5hnn7Aannr/ZEgbPvlaFmrcdN7S7YhfCqw0+1c9wMsXEErX0TeU WSjkvdxIAnBJDeUXCllVaxBQ0QoKxA== X-Received: by 10.200.34.167 with SMTP id f36mr7910415qta.258.1504040677892; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 14:04:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.200.25.202 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Aug 2017 14:04:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2017 14:04:37 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Heat Soak & Fuel Purge valve- Another half baked idea? To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11404ff6556b070557eac226" --001a11404ff6556b070557eac226 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I agree with Matt. The high pressure high flow system is one of the strengths of going with an alternate engine. Besides eliminating any possibility of vapor lock, it also provides protection against such malaties as water contamination and un-mixed 2-stroke oil. The pluming is not particularly difficult, especially when compared to some of the options you are considering here. I just have a single return line that returns to the left tank, eliminating the need for a 2 control valves. That means that when I am on the right tank I am transferring fuel to the left which leaves open the possibility of overflow out the vent, but I always set a timer and it has not been a problem for me. When fueling away from home, it is difficult to get the 2-stroke oil to mix well, even with rocking the plane. The high flow system mixes it quickly in the the left tank, but when I switch to the right I often get several seconds of rough running now matter how much I try to shake and shimmy first. If it were not for the high flow system, those several seconds of rough running would turn into nearly a full minute. That would be NO fun!!! Glad to see you back at it Todd! Trip report: I just flew my RV-6 up to Idaho for the eclipse. We stayed at a place with a private dirt strip in the Sawtooth Mountains at 5200'. Epic experience. Very hot sometimes and I was glad to have a return flow system. Dave Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 coming up on 1000 hrs soon..... On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 5:23 AM, Matt Boiteau wrote: > What was your reason to go return-less? > > I have 4 tanks in the wings split between the middle spar. Front left & > right, Back left & right. Instead of having a selector valve for each tank > (plus their return lines), I made 1 tank the main header tank. Fuel > supplies and returns to it. And the rest of the tanks feed the main tank > using transfer pump. No selector valve, full return system. > > -Matt Boiteau > > On Aug 22, 2017 17:36, "Todd Bartrim" wrote: > >> By opening manually, I meant just opening the oil hatch on the top of the >> RV cowl to let it cool. With that up in the air it would be difficult to >> miss and if I did miss it during a pre-flight, then I'd probably not be >> doing a good job of my pre-flight inspection. >> But I do think it's a good idea and one that I may have given more >> serious consideration to if I'd known about it earlier this year when I was >> doing fiberglass work on the cowl. >> At this point though it looks pretty easy for me to add the fuel purge to >> the injector header, so unless somebody talks me back from the ledge, I'm >> probably going to jump. Just as soon as I finish a solar mod on my boat so >> I can take my kid fishing tomorrow. >> >> Todd >> >> Todd Bartrim >> >> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Thomas Mann < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> >Cheaper, lighter and probably safer to just open the door manually. >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> ______________ >>> Cheaper: Depending on the alternative? Probably >>> Lighter: Again, depending on the alternative???? >>> Safer: Doubtful. These things are pretty much foolproof and have been >>> used in aircraft already for just this purpose. >>> With a front hinged vent door I cannot see a benefit to using a >>> manual mechanical method of operation. >>> If you do use a mechanical actuator ..... don't forget to come >>> back and close it. >>> >>> All in all, it's sounds as those this would not be a good solution for >>> you. >>> >>> >> >> --001a11404ff6556b070557eac226 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree with Matt.=C2=A0 The high pressure high flow syste= m is one of the strengths of going with an alternate engine.=C2=A0 Besides = eliminating any possibility of vapor lock, it also provides protection agai= nst such malaties as water contamination and un-mixed 2-stroke oil.
The pluming is not particularly difficult, especially when comp= ared to some of the options you are considering here.=C2=A0 I just have a s= ingle return line that returns to the left tank, eliminating the need for a= 2 control valves.=C2=A0 That means that when I am on the right tank I am t= ransferring fuel to the left which leaves open the possibility of overflow = out the vent, but I always set a timer and it has not been a problem for me= .

When fueling away from home, it is difficult to = get the 2-stroke oil to mix well, even with rocking the plane.=C2=A0 The hi= gh flow system mixes it quickly in the the left tank, but when I switch to = the right I often get several seconds of rough running now matter how much = I try to shake and shimmy first.=C2=A0 If it were not for the high flow sys= tem, those several seconds of rough running would turn into nearly a full m= inute.=C2=A0 That would be NO fun!!!

Glad to see y= ou back at it Todd!

Trip report: I just flew my RV-6 up t= o Idaho for the eclipse.=C2=A0 We stayed at a place with a private dirt str= ip in the Sawtooth Mountains at 5200'.=C2=A0 Epic experience.=C2=A0 Ver= y hot sometimes and I was glad to have a return flow system.

=
Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6
coming up on = 1000 hrs soon.....=C2=A0

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 5:23 AM, Matt Boiteau <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Wh= at was your reason to go return-less?

I have 4 tanks in the wings sp= lit between the middle spar. Front left & right, Back left & right.= Instead of having a selector valve for each tank (plus their return lines)= , I made 1 tank the main header tank. Fuel supplies and returns to it. And = the rest of the tanks feed the main tank using transfer pump. No selector v= alve, full return system.

-M= att Boiteau
On Aug 22, 2017 17:36, "Todd Bartrim"= ; <flyr= otary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
By opening = manually, I meant just opening the oil hatch on the top of the RV cowl to l= et it cool. With that up in the air it would be difficult to miss and if I = did miss it during a pre-flight, then I'd probably not be doing a good = job of my pre-flight inspection.
But I do think it's a good idea an= d one that I may have given more serious consideration to if I'd known = about it earlier this year when I was doing fiberglass work on the cowl.
At this point though it looks pretty easy for me to add the fuel pu= rge to the injector header, so unless somebody talks me back from the ledge= , I'm probably going to jump. Just as soon as I finish a solar mod on m= y boat so I can take my kid fishing tomorrow.

Todd=

Todd Bartrim

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Thomas Man= n <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>Cheaper, lighter and proba= bly safer to just open the door manually.
____________________________________________________________= ______________
Cheaper: Depending on the alternative? Probably
Lighter: Again, depending on the alternative????
Safer: Doubtful. These things are pretty much foolproof and have been used = in aircraft already for just this purpose.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 With a front hinged vent door I cannot= see a benefit to using a manual mechanical method of operation.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If you do use a mechanical actuator ..= ... don't forget to come back and close it.
=C2=A0
All in all, it's sounds as those this would not be a good solution= for you.
=C2=A0


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