X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=aM2ykv1m c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=vOu1pObdqjeL8xA29gkk5Q==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=kj1derGAFDYA:10 a=KeKAF7QvOSUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=9e07BDG62VQWeJ14ZccA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=tW8rcudB9ITE0C_vmQ0A:9 a=u-rhL4sicbRRrwqY:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "alex" Received: from mail-ua0-f172.google.com ([209.85.217.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 10038838 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 10:51:25 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.217.172; envelope-from=alex.molteno@gmail.com Received: by mail-ua0-f172.google.com with SMTP id j45so1275625uaf.2 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:51:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=mfH+sm0ZlnnDkuVqTIZu06uEHRG+Vh2pgL7j9Rs1KMA=; b=IfautB4mhNpcG/Mw3XXCTkkV/MNT8E9IZIcEGYdVIlcY0taRIEImQtY1IC215AZg1D nkMQiU/6MQdvvd5a3Z5puazwXOsxGjhnYiE/Z3ALkVn2jEAalc1Q5hKLlZM9Ya4ArptJ mUztCU8mFCXkhVyy7gsf/rg2JyZM4ls61ItKzI01Woxc41YiJ//e5kfdsr9DcycpDoXC MKVvdbbULs8Y5rdsY/xF8xVGiNaQB5nXdK45XJ6ThclrHai9h9a8WiL/1orZzodmTo3G +uG0YMerhZb4cmEm6WolSJk6+r5VEthZ0g97Z+0Hqm/k4UgxOPPmwN9RteNI/0HhH28y g6+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=mfH+sm0ZlnnDkuVqTIZu06uEHRG+Vh2pgL7j9Rs1KMA=; b=Y0Uyabe8GZuxlHWjIKB06k49maB0tBIsUeERXrFTyOXpRricjy+8nony8q53e1DzHE CvusWe+x7YiinpujkwiVg2kzh0eNVSJpKd2Cs3Y07ICUBmpJwTkKE4xHKbrKYDSENhQB m2Z58flaJyZxwGCLfZYr6XQxOI7Xm2CGU96AVA447iH2a3PfC30jZkJkMkG6muzv/UC+ 3mziwYRWI4Cs96CmK856A4s/3T8OIkOaT9ZPyi7pa6IbKMC/YxLtYAKe4bRwsPMWnR6R Ahm2WYRtuIiNyUHnhp/+qnB3RIrbHwqAPhNQdzyjLW5dBkff5Uk9yUd1IAr3opnaiWb9 ZgEw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5gBKY2/XRIi3h9Pd4Kr3rO47ho1ClySBf5QcNFMr+yQ314GKthm OIi8HUJH5J1LNqQmkHypM+iZn++t5w== X-Received: by 10.176.65.8 with SMTP id j8mr2030212uad.130.1503499868622; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:51:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.159.41.199 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.159.41.199 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:51:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 16:51:08 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Heat Soak & Fuel Purge valve- Another half baked idea? To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1235ee96d85005576cd776" --94eb2c1235ee96d85005576cd776 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" What fuel regulator do you guys recommend? My current setup uses a duplex fuel valve (came with the kit) drawing fuel from either L or R front tank and returning it to the same tank. The L & R rear tanks pump their fuel into their respective front tanks, via a facet pump on each wingtip. I like Tracy's idea of regulating fuel pressure by modulating the fuel pump. As a crude method I had considered a DC controller on the primary pump a while back to get more "electrical" range out the batteries when crossing water with a possible alternator failure, but that's a project for a few years away. What's everyone using on their conventional return system setups and any reasoning behind it? Alex Molteno On Aug 23, 2017 2:21 PM, "Tracy" wrote: > I went 'returnless' for simplicity of fuel plumbing, simplicity of > installing a fuel flow sensor between regulator and fuel rail and because > vapor lock is not a problem on the high pressure side of the system. In my > experience, Vapor lock only happens on the inlet side of the fuel pump. If > you eliminate it there, any heat soak problem after shutdown will quickly > clear itself on startup. > > Since the pump and regulator is not in the tank, my system is not truly > returnless since the regulator must have a return to the tank (unless you > implement fuel pressure regulation by modulating the fuel pump power). > > I only feed and return from one tank, the other tank just refills the feed > tank via transfer pump which Ts into the feed tank return line. > > Tracy > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Aug 23, 2017, at 06:23, Matt Boiteau > wrote: > > What was your reason to go return-less? > > I have 4 tanks in the wings split between the middle spar. Front left & > right, Back left & right. Instead of having a selector valve for each tank > (plus their return lines), I made 1 tank the main header tank. Fuel > supplies and returns to it. And the rest of the tanks feed the main tank > using transfer pump. No selector valve, full return system. > > -Matt Boiteau > > On Aug 22, 2017 17:36, "Todd Bartrim" wrote: > >> By opening manually, I meant just opening the oil hatch on the top of the >> RV cowl to let it cool. With that up in the air it would be difficult to >> miss and if I did miss it during a pre-flight, then I'd probably not be >> doing a good job of my pre-flight inspection. >> But I do think it's a good idea and one that I may have given more >> serious consideration to if I'd known about it earlier this year when I was >> doing fiberglass work on the cowl. >> At this point though it looks pretty easy for me to add the fuel purge to >> the injector header, so unless somebody talks me back from the ledge, I'm >> probably going to jump. Just as soon as I finish a solar mod on my boat so >> I can take my kid fishing tomorrow. >> >> Todd >> >> Todd Bartrim >> >> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Thomas Mann < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> >Cheaper, lighter and probably safer to just open the door manually. >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> ______________ >>> Cheaper: Depending on the alternative? Probably >>> Lighter: Again, depending on the alternative???? >>> Safer: Doubtful. These things are pretty much foolproof and have been >>> used in aircraft already for just this purpose. >>> With a front hinged vent door I cannot see a benefit to using a >>> manual mechanical method of operation. >>> If you do use a mechanical actuator ..... don't forget to come >>> back and close it. >>> >>> All in all, it's sounds as those this would not be a good solution for >>> you. >>> >>> >> >> --94eb2c1235ee96d85005576cd776 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What fuel regulator do you guys recommend?

My current setup uses a duplex fuel valve (c= ame with the kit) drawing fuel from either L or R front tank and returning = it to the same tank. The L & R rear tanks pump their fuel into their re= spective front tanks, via a facet pump on each wingtip.

I like Tracy's idea of regulating fuel pressure by modulating t= he fuel pump.=C2=A0

As a crude me= thod I had considered a DC controller on the primary pump a while back to g= et more "electrical" range out the batteries when crossing water = with a possible alternator failure, but that's a project for a few year= s away.

<= div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:sans-serif">What's everyone using= on their conventional return system setups and any reasoning behind it?

Alex Molteno

<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Aug 23, 2017 2:= 21 PM, "Tracy" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I went 'returnless' = for simplicity of fuel plumbing, simplicity of installing a fuel flow senso= r between regulator and fuel rail and because vapor lock is not a problem o= n the high pressure side of the system.=C2=A0 In my experience, Vapor lock = only happens on the inlet side of the fuel pump.=C2=A0 If you eliminate it = there, any heat soak problem after shutdown will quickly clear itself on st= artup. =C2=A0
Since the pump = and regulator is not in the tank, my system is not truly returnless since t= he regulator must have a return to the tank (unless you implement fuel pres= sure regulation by modulating the fuel pump power). =C2=A0=C2=A0

I only feed and return from one tank, t= he other tank just refills the feed tank via transfer pump which Ts into th= e feed tank return line. =C2=A0

Tracy



Sent from my= iPad

On Aug 23, 2017, at 06:23, Matt Boiteau <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net> wrote:

What was your reason to = go return-less?

I have 4 tanks in the wings split between the middle= spar. Front left & right, Back left & right. Instead of having a s= elector valve for each tank (plus their return lines), I made 1 tank the ma= in header tank. Fuel supplies and returns to it. And the rest of the tanks = feed the main tank using transfer pump. No selector valve, full return syst= em.

-Matt Boiteau

On Aug 22, 2017 = 17:36, "Todd Bartrim" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
By opening = manually, I meant just opening the oil hatch on the top of the RV cowl to l= et it cool. With that up in the air it would be difficult to miss and if I = did miss it during a pre-flight, then I'd probably not be doing a good = job of my pre-flight inspection.
But I do think it's a good idea an= d one that I may have given more serious consideration to if I'd known = about it earlier this year when I was doing fiberglass work on the cowl.
At this point though it looks pretty easy for me to add the fuel pu= rge to the injector header, so unless somebody talks me back from the ledge= , I'm probably going to jump. Just as soon as I finish a solar mod on m= y boat so I can take my kid fishing tomorrow.

Todd=

Todd Bartrim

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Thomas Man= n <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>Cheaper, lighter and proba= bly safer to just open the door manually.
____________________________________________________________= ______________
Cheaper: Depending on the alternative? Probably
Lighter: Again, depending on the alternative????
Safer: Doubtful. These things are pretty much foolproof and have been used = in aircraft already for just this purpose.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 With a front hinged vent door I cannot= see a benefit to using a manual mechanical method of operation.
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If you do use a mechanical actuator ..= ... don't forget to come back and close it.
=C2=A0
All in all, it's sounds as those this would not be a good solution= for you.
=C2=A0

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