X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=aM2ykv1m c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=RPZgViSN43jj7cy/UnIhow==:117 a=oJRyAWwItSfGC9jYX5MI9Q==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=VqmtQeTB-p0A:10 a=KeKAF7QvOSUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=e_7i7aUpTFJ71t3QxZIA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=h4rUkr6ncXMFEls7ijMA:9 a=Ow3TSgkzEPMw4L8o:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 From: "Tracy" Received: from mail-io0-f172.google.com ([209.85.223.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 10038382 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 09:21:30 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.223.172; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by mail-io0-f172.google.com with SMTP id y4so259207iod.4 for ; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:21:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:references:from:in-reply-to:message-id:date:to :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=UJfvSlO4rDstd6zfx3C7jjg1zFuSGVetk20kz6JNH8E=; b=ngq/WdYISocH9oSe2R7u+so8CO9UTXCNyEI1XM7Nv4RhBkf50ChOwhZPAvDgXTNiF9 qA09axDViVrY9w4GO2qpKnmIKwSMcJuNAczacz1sTKhhe0/RkfK+juiemyP6ioqPiXMr ksn32VjlYuBIj6fF+PBoFcC5O42B+xLynPEzGdMzzgr/1ZhIkpgWHPGjRP+BQ2jVFBsY JV5mHsrKvBwT9rPurRIUWO4kMYrmnPebcy5+hSaXCcjR5yH1kBapTvPvwBzFBXUvuj3t 01zQSb1zBJmoEcZ0TdPsVlWQDR41t3IVIaj//jnLLXz1Q1BV2gcfPw/XYXc9wNeXiEeZ vQTg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:from:in-reply-to:message-id :date:to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=UJfvSlO4rDstd6zfx3C7jjg1zFuSGVetk20kz6JNH8E=; b=KCH3i0gy3/Myh4BQNi6sM1OwKRkcvWSqrYQplDig6L+CajvCEElj9ZUljmtj6MO7Z2 rEWdKqnkVF32xz6U0/DIwCTWnRgnfvKHkd356YzYpnN24Ntp0a+HONuOgWaJEQCF68am ExYjPU0NJJBU9U3ATM38HpteysploKuwMccMCOY3+ADHCEcXQjIrZUANZ0g/55vhGzN5 var0NHDoXz+8Kbb/Aab9CbN+ZJRpJWCzZOVHzdM25dRJwHzqPkWjyQpjWY+ehuHklMug D/h9hQwGFy2Gu2emhy+ns9mY3QTyHFh+ni9CdbvBgTG8fpYPSn5c8SzhvBKPDeDMhIKE zwmQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5j/EiDbwa3tz8rIMM5Wn7ArOVBTU/e/CqGQmiftx91gy/b1OCH5 cNZVUzDRJFY/OZRdH48= X-Received: by 10.107.22.65 with SMTP id 62mr1863008iow.32.1503494468533; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [10.233.75.236] (25.sub-97-44-2.myvzw.com. [97.44.2.25]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x187sm961408itd.21.2017.08.23.06.21.06 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 23 Aug 2017 06:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Heat Soak & Fuel Purge valve- Another half baked idea? References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-357DF7CB-272C-4F77-8246-4A1BED77EB76 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (13G36) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <94978C74-A1B0-4DB5-BAC9-33F0CCB2FA16@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:21:02 -0600 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-357DF7CB-272C-4F77-8246-4A1BED77EB76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I went 'returnless' for simplicity of fuel plumbing, simplicity of installin= g a fuel flow sensor between regulator and fuel rail and because vapor lock i= s not a problem on the high pressure side of the system. In my experience, V= apor lock only happens on the inlet side of the fuel pump. If you eliminate= it there, any heat soak problem after shutdown will quickly clear itself on= startup. =20 Since the pump and regulator is not in the tank, my system is not truly retu= rnless since the regulator must have a return to the tank (unless you implem= ent fuel pressure regulation by modulating the fuel pump power). =20 I only feed and return from one tank, the other tank just refills the feed t= ank via transfer pump which Ts into the feed tank return line. =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad > On Aug 23, 2017, at 06:23, Matt Boiteau wrot= e: >=20 > What was your reason to go return-less? >=20 > I have 4 tanks in the wings split between the middle spar. Front left & ri= ght, Back left & right. Instead of having a selector valve for each tank (pl= us their return lines), I made 1 tank the main header tank. Fuel supplies an= d returns to it. And the rest of the tanks feed the main tank using transfer= pump. No selector valve, full return system. >=20 > -Matt Boiteau >=20 >> On Aug 22, 2017 17:36, "Todd Bartrim" wrote= : >> By opening manually, I meant just opening the oil hatch on the top of the= RV cowl to let it cool. With that up in the air it would be difficult to mi= ss and if I did miss it during a pre-flight, then I'd probably not be doing a= good job of my pre-flight inspection. >> But I do think it's a good idea and one that I may have given more seriou= s consideration to if I'd known about it earlier this year when I was doing f= iberglass work on the cowl. >> At this point though it looks pretty easy for me to add the fuel purge to= the injector header, so unless somebody talks me back from the ledge, I'm p= robably going to jump. Just as soon as I finish a solar mod on my boat so I c= an take my kid fishing tomorrow. >>=20 >> Todd >>=20 >> Todd Bartrim >>=20 >>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Thomas Mann wrote: >>> >Cheaper, lighter and probably safer to just open the door manually. >>> ________________________________________________________________________= __ >>> Cheaper: Depending on the alternative? Probably >>> Lighter: Again, depending on the alternative???? >>> Safer: Doubtful. These things are pretty much foolproof and have been us= ed in aircraft already for just this purpose. >>> With a front hinged vent door I cannot see a benefit to using a m= anual mechanical method of operation. >>> If you do use a mechanical actuator ..... don't forget to come ba= ck and close it. >>> =20 >>> All in all, it's sounds as those this would not be a good solution for y= ou. >>> =20 >>=20 --Apple-Mail-357DF7CB-272C-4F77-8246-4A1BED77EB76 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I went 'returnless' for simplicity of f= uel plumbing, simplicity of installing a fuel flow sensor between regulator a= nd fuel rail and because vapor lock is not a problem on the high pressure si= de of the system.  In my experience, Vapor lock only happens on the inl= et side of the fuel pump.  If you eliminate it there, any heat soak pro= blem after shutdown will quickly clear itself on startup.  

Since the p= ump and regulator is not in the tank, my system is not truly returnless sinc= e the regulator must have a return to the tank (unless you implement fuel pr= essure regulation by modulating the fuel pump power).   

I only f= eed and return from one tank, the other tank just refills the feed tank via t= ransfer pump which Ts into the feed tank return line.  

Tracy


Sent from my iPad

On Aug 23, 2017, at 06:23, Matt Boiteau <= ;flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /a>> wrote:


By openin= g manually, I meant just opening the oil hatch on the top of the RV cowl to l= et it cool. With that up in the air it would be difficult to miss and if I d= id miss it during a pre-flight, then I'd probably not be doing a good job of= my pre-flight inspection.
But I do think it's a good idea and one that I= may have given more serious consideration to if I'd known about it earlier t= his year when I was doing fiberglass work on the cowl.
At this poi= nt though it looks pretty easy for me to add the fuel purge to the injector h= eader, so unless somebody talks me back from the ledge, I'm probably going t= o jump. Just as soon as I finish a solar mod on my boat so I can take my kid= fishing tomorrow.

Todd

Todd Bartrim

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Thomas Mann= <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>Cheaper, lighter and proba= bly safer to just open the door manually.
_____________________________________________________________= _____________
Cheaper: Depending on the alternative? Probably
Lighter: Again, depending on the alternative????
Safer: Doubtful. These things are pretty much foolproof and have been used i= n aircraft already for just this purpose.
       With a front hinged vent door I cannot s= ee a benefit to using a manual mechanical method of operation.
       If you do use a mechanical actuator ...= .. don't forget to come back and close it.
 
All in all, it's sounds as those this would not be a good solution for y= ou.
 

= --Apple-Mail-357DF7CB-272C-4F77-8246-4A1BED77EB76--