From: "Steven W. Boese" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] oil flow
Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] oil flow
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 05:00:20 +0000
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Andrew,


Turning the engine by hand and collecting the oil delivered by the pump gav=
e:

1986 13B: 426 revolutions per gallon or 11.7 gal/min at 5000 rpm

2010 Renesis: 392 revolutions per gallon or 12.7 gal/min at 5000 rpm.


I haven't tested a pre-2009 Renesis.


As long as you are not using a restrictive oil cooler like those from a sto=
ck 13B, the oil will not be returned to the sump by the front OCV during no=
rmal operation.  All the oil will go through the cooler and the cooled oil =
will either pass through the bearings and EC shaft jets or be returned to t=
he sump by the rear iron oil pressure relief valve.


It would be good to verify that your oil cooler is not restrictive.  If you=
 want more oil passing through the bearings and jets, you could possibly ru=
n higher oil pressure by using a higher pressure rear iron relief valve.


Steve Boese

________________________________
From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on behalf of =
Andrew Martin <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 10:13:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] oil flow

Has anyone ever had a flow transducer in the oil circuit? If so, what was t=
he peak flow?
Does anyone know the cc/rev specs and gearing ratio of the oil pump?
If there was past discussion on this on the list please let me know, but as=
 yet I have not been able to find anything.

Bit of background, Steve Boese's oil cooler experiments from a few years ba=
ck has helped me much but got me searching more for the effect of oil flow =
on heat rejection in the entire system.

My temps are much better on the ground now that I've relocated the heat exc=
hangers, but I am reluctant to fly again until I know I can get to a decent=
 altitude before encountering max temps.

I dont think flow of oil through an engine built with tight specs would cha=
nge appreciably from idle to max rpm, but flow through the OCV will rise sh=
arply.  My engine is a 2004 Renesis with a front cover OCV. I think I could=
 get much better control of the oil temp if I could get higher flow through=
 the cooler. I think its all about controlling the average deltaT. so a tig=
hter engine is going to need much higher deltaT through the cooler as flow =
will be lower.

There are probably many ways that would give me a solution.

  *   less oil restriction in engine (should have modified those eccentric =
oil jets). this may be the best solution but I don't really want to open th=
e engine again just yet.
  *   I could put an external OCV set at lower pressure than front cover OC=
V inline after heat exchanger, more oil is being cooled.
  *   A bigger heat exchanger would also do the job, but I don't think its =
the best solution as its just a guess on how big to go.
  *   What I might do is. plumb in a lower pressure or adjustable OCV and s=
olenoid valve in series on oil "out" port on engine, dump oil into a extra =
heat exchanger then back to sump. with solenoid off, oil flows as it does n=
ow, with it on =3D extra cooling on demand, basically all that happens is o=
il that would be returned straight back to sump is diverted to a cooler, en=
gine would just see the slightly lower pressure from the second OCV.

My theory is that Oil pressure is nice to know but kind of meaningless. Its=
 possible to have high pressure but flow going to the wrong place (sump), w=
hich is not good. Pump is fixed displacement so oil has to go somewhere. Ul=
timately, Maybe an engine with lower pressure due to less restriction withi=
n the rotating parts is probably best as it results in higher flow oil to w=
here its needed.

Any thoughts
Cheers  Andrew


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<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font=
-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;" dir=3D"ltr">
<p>Andrew,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Turning the engine by hand and collecting the oil delivered by the pump =
gave:</p>
<p>1986 13B: 426 revolutions per gallon or 11.7 gal/min at 5000 rpm</p>
<p>2010 Renesis: 392 revolutions per gallon or 12.7 gal/min at 5000 rpm.</p=
>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I haven't tested a pre-2009 Renesis.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>As long as you are not using a restrictive oil cooler like those from a =
stock 13B, the oil will not be returned to the sump by the front OCV during=
 normal operation.&nbsp; All the oil will go through the cooler and the coo=
led oil will either pass through the
 bearings and EC shaft jets or be returned to the sump by the rear iron oil=
 pressure relief valve.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>It would be good to verify that your oil cooler is not restrictive.&nbsp=
; If you want more oil passing through the bearings and jets, you could pos=
sibly run higher oil pressure by using a higher pressure rear iron relief v=
alve.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Steve Boese<br>
</p>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Rotary motors in airc=
raft &lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.net&gt; on behalf of Andrew Martin &lt;fly=
rotary@lancaironline.net&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 16, 2017 10:13:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rotary motors in aircraft<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [FlyRotary] oil flow</font>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Has anyone ever had a flow transducer in the oil circuit? If so, what =
was the peak flow?<br>
</div>
<div>Does anyone know the cc/rev specs and gearing ratio of the oil pump?<b=
r>
</div>
<div>If there was past discussion on this on the list please let me know, b=
ut as yet I have not been able to find anything.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Bit of background, Steve Boese's oil cooler experiments from a few years ba=
ck has helped me much but got me searching more for the effect of oil flow =
on heat rejection in the entire system.<br>
<br>
</div>
My temps are much better on the ground now that I've relocated the heat exc=
hangers, but I am reluctant to fly again until I know I can get to a decent=
 altitude before encountering max temps.<br>
<br>
</div>
I dont think flow of oil through an engine built with tight specs would cha=
nge appreciably from idle to max rpm, but flow through the OCV will rise sh=
arply.&nbsp; My engine is a 2004 Renesis with a front cover OCV. I think I =
could get much better control of the
 oil temp if I could get higher flow through the cooler. I think its all ab=
out controlling the average deltaT. so a tighter engine is going to need mu=
ch higher deltaT through the cooler as flow will be lower.<br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
There are probably many ways that would give me a solution.<br>
<ul>
<li>less oil restriction in engine (should have modified those eccentric oi=
l jets). this may be the best solution but I don't really want to open the =
engine again just yet.<br>
</li><li>I could put an external OCV set at lower pressure than front cover=
 OCV inline after heat exchanger, more oil is being cooled.<br>
</li><li>A bigger heat exchanger would also do the job, but I don't think i=
ts the best solution as its just a guess on how big to go.</li><li>What I m=
ight do is. plumb in a lower pressure or adjustable OCV and solenoid valve =
in series on oil &quot;out&quot; port on engine, dump oil into a extra heat=
 exchanger then back to sump. with solenoid off, oil flows as it does now, =
with it on =3D extra cooling on
 demand, basically all that happens is oil that would be returned straight =
back to sump is diverted to a cooler, engine would just see the slightly lo=
wer pressure from the second OCV.<br>
</li></ul>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_signature">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>My theory is that Oil pressure is nice to know but kind of meaningless=
. Its possible to have high pressure but flow going to the wrong place (sum=
p), which is not good. Pump is fixed displacement so oil has to go somewher=
e. Ultimately, Maybe an engine with
 lower pressure due to less restriction within the rotating parts is probab=
ly best as it results in higher flow oil to where its needed.<br>
<br>
Any thoughts<br>
</div>
<div>Cheers&nbsp; Andrew<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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