X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Charlie England" Received: from mail-yw0-f169.google.com ([209.85.161.169] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c3) with ESMTPS id 9828869 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 18:39:27 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.169; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-yw0-f169.google.com with SMTP id e142so12684491ywa.1 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 15:39:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=vwnk9ZvrV3NmDtIPQDVLcuIafWGMZsxbZw0s3g9g9sc=; b=k0e+mkAs+i9HlIGe2nPkO7DMQHF3EBvIy/frD0on33ueG9ZVqTdFzKgajX1QSNd4cH 0wvEhhGiPEnYT3QaPx5UQL3+C7/GkPhyT86NnUsamu0/GtuEz9V6F4ML8SEW2WFYw6Rh ca1m2yXorU3B1YEoykJ7VcHhmWyhO8drANs8W4Rvod+5T5amsomSsYHemF38IvYrsd6X jSBWhvdengYmCZ24QFd7A+gzfzVOO0GCvDPGcgPZ4ua1BYhQlkbUpqzsyQhuOH+zM0WI gUMbaHvBjgf5+Iai8sm0ASlw097cPdnh1PewFVgS75u+bATXUs86lgjvN1/nYm9Jv6pw lOew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=vwnk9ZvrV3NmDtIPQDVLcuIafWGMZsxbZw0s3g9g9sc=; b=Nsz0VyMQeiIlB7Uqmf8VXlF4SNSk1iONfUEcLErAdkOaZRx2xRfIInqunSKFOlzpF0 4//SM55N/iOOf57RMI8SVMyBDAyJpoqEH7VQNUGEU/C+TWymQkQvNdPVnTZNb/f+BBd7 bcFR4C+N+ZdetrZifkUfVqc0L1glkGoaTV72ZcaE08CtK7J4TNCkCHivDz+8EtDd/D10 d2LhB7xIdPSSz8U0r5E4XOYg7GdLWyVlaDxT2PyvVF8nDSNrDM/Hv3HbssCUjetaVC6n 79QzZ/S3C/OyBgrpmZaz6zpWCNd7gvChblVP6GqjjT40Us2U4uXU7UjqngUiMYyGtDTO IdwQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwlycuk8JB8WCSEWA9zDBqZPiH/PC50qjXl3Mvr4jheT3BEGR2F HI3GoLa3f4laBTf/ X-Received: by 10.129.135.135 with SMTP id x129mr4723851ywf.142.1497566350132; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 15:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:::1? ([2602:306:25fb:1189:edb4:8e6e:ba0f:f6b9]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id g13sm257841ywk.23.2017.06.15.15.39.04 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 15 Jun 2017 15:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: ceramic coating To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <98677eb7-235b-3bc0-801b-218eca1bea6c@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 17:41:41 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------EAAF65E3FDF8906D171B7CF4" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 170615-0, 06/15/2017), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EAAF65E3FDF8906D171B7CF4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did a bit of research a few years ago. The 'bite your butt' aspect of all of them is that they need to go in the interior to really do some good (protect the metal of the manifold/exhaust itself, in addition to the under-cowl stuff), Even the pro coaters I talked to were not very encouraging about trying to coat a product that has already been in service; just no way to be sure all the interior surfaces got clean, before applying the coating. If you're willing to accept the process as just being better than the wrap, but doing the same thing, then go for it. You do need to look closely at the actual characteristics of the product, too. Some will withstand extreme heat, but do little to block transmission of that heat. They were basically just high heat-tolerance finishes. Many of the products I researched fell into that category, but you really had to dig to get the info. FWIW, I just took a look at the VHT Flameproof web page, and there's no claim whatsoever that it lowers under-hood (cowl) temps. If it were my product, and it did that, I'd certainly flaunt the fact that it did, complete with "twenty-seven 8 x 10 coloredglossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explainin' what each one was, to be used as evidence" of what a great product it was. Charlie (Apologies to Arlo.) On 6/15/2017 4:45 PM, Todd Bartrim wrote: > It appears that Jet-Hot is a service business and not a product that I > can buy. They may have their own proprietary coatings but it doesn't > appear that they sell them as a product but only as a service for > which I'd have to send my stuff out-of -country to have them apply it. > I can get it done here in Canada by any number of businesses that use > a variety of products including Cerakote and Ceramakrome. > Unfortunately none of them are local and other than VHT, I haven't > been able to find a product in Canada to do it myself. > So unless somebody speaks up with a glowing recommendation for VHT, > then I'll resign myself to shipping them away to have someone do it > for me. > > Todd Bartrim > > On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:26 PM, William Jepson > > wrote: > > Todd, I haven't used the VHT coating, but I have used the Jet-Hot > coatings. They have performed great. They have a high-temp coating > that will work for rotaries. The wraps tend to cause corrosion > since they seem to trap condensation. > Bill Jepson > > On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Todd Bartrim > > > wrote: > > Has anybody tried using VHT Flameproof, ceramic coating ? It's > rated up to 2000F intermittent. > I've been running my engine with exhaust wraps and am very > pleased with the reduction of under cowl temps but am aware of > the concerns regarding longevity of the exhaust. > As I'm very near to returning to the airport I want to address > this and go with a ceramic coating. > I have the ability and facilities to apply a proper ceramic > coat, but it is difficult to source the material at a > reasonable cost and timeframe. > I can ship it away and have it done for about the same price > and less time. But I can also purchase VHT locally. While it > comes in an aerosol can, it is not paint. It can be applied as > simple as you would a paint, but for best results, proper > cleaning, bead blasting and oven cure are required, not unlike > the usual ceramic coats. > I always preferr to do things myself, but if anybody can say > that this stuff is not up to the hype, then I'll consider > shipping out the exhaust to have it done. > I have about a week of work to do where I want the exhaust > in place, but then I'll be away for a week, during which time > I can send it out. > Further to this, has anybody ever had their exhaust ceramic > coated and then also wrapped it to provide even more heat > reduction? > > Todd Bartrim > C-FSTB > Turbo 13B RV9a > > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------------EAAF65E3FDF8906D171B7CF4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I did a bit of research a few years ago. The 'bite your butt' aspect of all of them is that they need to go in the interior to really do some good (protect the metal of the manifold/exhaust itself, in addition to the under-cowl stuff), Even the pro coaters I talked to were not very encouraging about trying to coat a product that has already been in service; just no way to be sure all the interior surfaces got clean, before applying the coating.

If you're willing to accept the process as just being better than the wrap, but doing the same thing, then go for it. You do need to look closely at the actual characteristics of the product, too. Some will withstand extreme heat, but do little to block transmission of that heat. They were basically just high heat-tolerance finishes. Many of the products I researched fell into that category, but you really had to dig to get the info.

FWIW, I just took a look at the VHT Flameproof web page, and there's no claim whatsoever that it lowers under-hood (cowl) temps. If it were my product, and it did that, I'd certainly flaunt the fact that it did, complete with  "twenty-seven 8 x 10 colored glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of 
each one explainin' what each one was, to be used as evidence" of what a great product it was.

Charlie
(Apologies to Arlo.)



On 6/15/2017 4:45 PM, Todd Bartrim wrote:
It appears that Jet-Hot is a service business and not a product that I can buy. They may have their own proprietary coatings but it doesn't appear that they sell them as a product but only as a service for which I'd have to send my stuff out-of -country to have them apply it.
I can get it done here in Canada by any number of businesses that use a variety of products including Cerakote and Ceramakrome. Unfortunately none of them are local and other than VHT, I haven't been able to find a product in Canada to do it myself.
  So unless somebody speaks up with a glowing recommendation for VHT, then I'll resign myself to shipping them away to have someone do it for me.

Todd Bartrim

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:26 PM, William Jepson <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Todd, I haven't used the VHT coating, but I have used the Jet-Hot coatings. They have performed great. They have a high-temp coating that will work for rotaries. The wraps tend to cause corrosion since they seem to trap condensation.
Bill Jepson

On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Todd Bartrim <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Has anybody tried using VHT Flameproof, ceramic coating ? It's rated up to 2000F intermittent.
I've been running my engine with exhaust wraps and am very pleased with the reduction of under cowl temps but am aware of the concerns regarding longevity of the exhaust.
As I'm very near to returning to the airport I want to address this and go with a ceramic coating.
I have the ability and facilities to apply a proper ceramic coat, but it is difficult to source the material at a reasonable cost and timeframe.
  I can ship it away and have it done for about the same price and less time. But I can also purchase VHT locally. While it comes in an aerosol can, it is not paint. It can be applied as simple as you would a paint, but for best results, proper cleaning, bead blasting and oven cure are required, not unlike the usual ceramic coats.
  I always preferr to do things myself, but if anybody can say that this stuff is not up to the hype, then I'll consider shipping out the exhaust to have it done.
  I have about a week of work to do where I want the exhaust in place, but then I'll be away for a week, during which time I can send it out.
   Further to this, has anybody ever had their exhaust ceramic coated and then also wrapped it to provide even more heat reduction?

Todd Bartrim
 C-FSTB
Turbo 13B RV9a




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