X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: Received: from resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c1) with ESMTPS id 9606885 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:44:53 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.252.207.42; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.107]) by resqmta-ch2-10v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id rZoocGX6361D9rZorchkWb; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 00:44:37 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1490402677; bh=Are6W9i4VyfVhXhRv5WIGjHx9tKqV12TGFoyP0dHSxE=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=S8y9cncphKPx0A2ifyA5x8mIuSvBoADe0FUxhJZZOpJFZfE/38CEho1PYPq2xNeQi abaSpj405qAaq8X9PuxH8xoL/BUhvomIv8rhwl39r7+1lj6G3BWZMqrOIMqicYJHmQ MYkbujc5zZHBJ3WcSQbwIJR9LaZSsEFUM3qrzALwGod5KhnY6IDAejJdHNZod01KQf ZuGdOEmfkHDMH920dGVAMGZkKT2E0wV0A3qxI5Tpsl/mWu5ggkPETlRa8TsylnSDa1 3IMSFuB6Fu9Q3ZrDoKRuh+Hy1V6gAH4MmUPtCI2cEjCOzF51VaO10JSvoRcAuo8HIA I5UMhILEn0y9g== Received: from resmail-ch2-632v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.50.156]) by resomta-ch2-11v.sys.comcast.net with SMTP id rZorcKSctBmKPrZorc4TbD; Sat, 25 Mar 2017 00:44:37 +0000 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 00:44:37 +0000 (UTC) To: "Fly rotary blog, e-mail" Message-ID: <511417743.24397726.1490402677320.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_24397725_1005733040.1490402677318" X-Originating-IP: [::ffff:68.49.229.174] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.0.7_GA_6031 (ZimbraWebClient - GC51 (Win)/8.0.7_GA_6031) Thread-Topic: fuel system peer review Thread-Index: DWXg1OoQDOBcztAkMgBaSdI+0aE8WA== X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfC3fAZx+uxUq470jWBIMnpBVsDeVw/TaQbsy7Zg1oseD7h5zQM5MDDUm98mWkL2rpzjiBiMwD+BJFVXbgEIxVU0qoQjbxnejUEMK/RYj3glGqiIoT0LT o+kueGQ2SBqvZSefYwfuHlqfmY4dj4pM2+X08UU+Szd0zHZKJDmyuNHbuAWaO1rzK4c+JX6Fd4bz+HKw727v1wEVieV2KMTSPWE= ------=_Part_24397725_1005733040.1490402677318 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, so I wont waste my time on that idea, not having cooling prob. so will stay with what is working. Thanks Steve. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Boese" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 11:29:21 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review Dave, The oil thermostat and bypass is internal to the oil cooler. Removing the thermostat would allow the oil to always bypass the core no matter what the temperature of the oil is. The pressure at the inlet to the oil cooler would not be as high at lower RPM but still reach 150 psi at high RPM. Without oil being forced to flow through the core, however, the cooling effectiveness would be greatly reduced. I have not set up the oil cooler this way. It is also possible to remove the oil thermostat and block off the bypass with a bolt and nut. This prevents the hot oil from flowing through the bypass and mixing with the oil cooled by the core. Only the cooled oil will exit the oil cooler then. The pressure at the oil cooler inlet would reach 150 psi at lower RPM with this set up. I've tried this setup but didn't make pressure measurements on it. I've converted the RX7 oil cooler to single pass instead of double pass by welding a -10 fitting on the tank at the opposite end of the normal connections and removing the thermostat. The inlet pressure reached 150 psi at about the same RPM (2800) as with the unmodified cooler with the thermostat installed. This demonstrated the restrictive nature of the RX7 core. Steve Boese RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of hoursaway1 Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 6:52 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review Steve, Dave Cook here, have you tried looking for that same pressure build-up pre Mazda oil cooler with the temp by-pass removed/by-passed, I'm thinking that is the cause of the restriction. David R. Cook RV6A Rotary ,MI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Boese" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 12:11:21 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review Andrew, A Fluidyne DB-30618 is t he oil cooler I ended up with in the plane. When a pressure gauge was installed in the line between the front cover outlet and the RX7 oil cooler inlet, the pressure rose with increasing RPM to 150 psi at 2800 RPM. Increasing RPM above 2800 resulted in a steady pressure at 150 psi. Since the oil pump is a positive displacement pump, additional oil flow above 2800 RPM passes through the relief valve into the sump. At 5600 RPM half of the oil pumped by the oil pump never flows through the oil cooler. With the Fluidyne oil cooler, the pressure at its inlet never reaches 150 psi so all of the oil passes through it. An archive search for 25 Feb 2014 should find a description of various oil cooler configurations that I tested. Steve Boese From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of Andrew Martin Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:40:08 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review This thread has perfect timing and great info for me. I was thinking of ditching my setup and simplifying it, but it looks like every system is a compromise. I just mounted a belly radiator which entailed moving the pumps & sump tank. As other local pilots had commented on how complex my fuel system was I thought it opportune to address it now. After following this thread though I'm inclined to stick with this setup now as I know it works. and just not let anyone else on the controls. Only problem I have is I cannot tell the fuel level in the sump tank. Need some sort of warning that I've drained a tank dry or have a vent or feed problem. Am thinking of putting a sight glass in the return line from sump to fuel selectors for a visual clue. I like this setup as it allows me to feed from any or all tanks. not needed but usually leave 1 transfer pump on. if both transfer pumps happened to fail the fuel return path gives a free flow path from tanks to sump also. I have managed to empty the sump tank once when flow testing the system but there was no back pressure on the system so regulator was not circulating fuel. I guessed the tank vent lines (1/4") are just to small when fuel flowing at 180l/hr and it vapourized in the sump. Steve. I'm interested to know the model No. of your fluidyne oil cooler. I started with these mods because I couldn't control my oil temps, so new belly radiator installed to give oil cooler all the cowl air, but I never thought that the mazda cooler may be blocking oil flow. Whats the clue that the front relief valve is opening? Andrew ------=_Part_24397725_1005733040.1490402677318 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, so I wont waste my time on that id= ea, not having cooling prob. so will stay with what is working. Thanks Stev= e.  David

From: "Steven W. Bo= ese" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: "Rotary motors in ai= rcraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, March= 23, 2017 11:29:21 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer r= eview

= Dave,


The oil thermostat and bypass is internal to the oil= cooler.  Removing the thermostat would allow the oil to always bypass= the core no matter what the temperature of the oil is.  The pressure = at the inlet to the oil cooler would not be as high at lower RPM but still = reach 150 psi at high RPM.  Without oil being forced to flow through t= he core, however, the cooling effectiveness would be greatly reduced.&= nbsp; I have not set up the oil cooler this way.


It is also possible to remove the oil thermostat and block off the bypass = with a bolt and nut.  This prevents the hot oil from flowing= through the bypass and mixing with the oil cooled by the co= re.  Only the cooled oil will exit the oil cooler then.  The pres= sure at the oil cooler inlet would reach 150 psi at lower RPM with this set= up.  I've tried this setup but didn't make pressure measurements= on it.


I've converted the RX7 oil cooler to single pass i= nstead of double pass by welding a -10 fitting on the tank at the opposite = end of the normal connections and removing the thermostat.  The inlet = pressure reached 150 psi at about the same RPM (2800) as with the unmo= dified cooler with the thermostat installed.  This demonstrated the re= strictive nature of the RX7 core.

 

Steve Boese
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2


= From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on behalf o= f hoursaway1 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday,= March 23, 2017 6:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Sub= ject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review
 
= Steve, Dave Cook here, have you tried looking for that same pressure b= uild-up pre Mazda oil cooler with the temp by-pass removed/by-passed, I'm t= hinking that is the cause of the restriction. David R. Cook  RV6A Rota= ry ,MI

From: "Steven W. Boese"= <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircr= aft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 2= 3, 2017 12:11:21 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer re= view


Andrew,


A Fl= uidyne DB-30618 is the oil cooler I ended up with in the plane.


When a pressure gauge was installed in the line between = the front cover outlet and the RX7 oil cooler inlet, the pressure rose with= increasing RPM to 150 psi at 2800 RPM.  Increasing RPM above 2800 res= ulted in a steady pressure at 150 psi.  Since the oil pump is a positi= ve displacement pump, additional oil flow above 2800 RPM passe= s through the relief valve into the sump.  At 5600 RPM half of the oil= pumped by the oil pump never flows through the oil cooler.


<= p>With the Fluidyne oil cooler, the pressure at its inlet never reaches 150= psi so all of the oil passes through it.


An archive searc= h for 25 Feb 2014 should find a description of various oil cooler configura= tions that I tested.


Steve Boese



<= hr style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%" data-mce-style=3D"display: inl= ine-block; width: 98%;">

This thread has perfect timing and great info for me.<= br>
I was thinking of ditching my setup and simplifying it, but i= t looks like every system is a compromise.
I just mounted a belly= radiator which entailed moving the pumps & sump tank. As other local p= ilots had commented on how complex my fuel system was I thought it opportun= e to address it now. After following this thread though I'm inclined to sti= ck with this setup now as I know it works. and just not let anyone else on = the controls.
Only problem I have is I cannot tell the fuel level = in the sump tank. Need some sort of warning that I've drained a tank dry or= have a vent or feed problem. Am thinking of putting a sight glass in the r= eturn line from sump to fuel selectors for a visual clue.
I like t= his setup as it allows me to feed from any or all tanks. not needed but usu= ally leave 1 transfer pump on. if both transfer pumps happened to fail the = fuel return path gives a free flow path from tanks to sump also.
I= have managed to empty the sump tank once when flow testing the system but = there was no back pressure on the system so regulator was not circulating f= uel. I guessed the tank vent lines (1/4") are just to small when fuel flowi= ng at 180l/hr and it vapourized in the sump.

Steve. I'm inter= ested to know the model No. of your fluidyne oil cooler. I started with the= se mods because I couldn't control my oil temps, so new belly radiator inst= alled to give oil cooler all the cowl air, but I never thought that the maz= da cooler may be blocking oil flow. Whats the clue that the front relief va= lve is opening?

Andrew



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