X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Stephen Izett" Received: from mail-pf0-f180.google.com ([209.85.192.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c1) with ESMTPS id 9606900 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:26:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.192.180; envelope-from=steveize@gmail.com Received: by mail-pf0-f180.google.com with SMTP id 20so2247450pfk.2 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:26:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=zuSGsWZdJO8tHIgYwglpvG7vWbif2SydgS0kXPCJWzA=; b=SJuDISGQoqTk47AFRgVXKUbjGfpPJxZo1ZuV6iPyuUJZT5yehHtx7OkVeA9R46D5cb 9/KvbjURZ5L/hSnWhbQSbW16XSVivh/FqeNURUppGTp45RXSdC8RYLeL6qDoa2z0mRuq IsbC2+VD8TU47BY8nQyavSkvO8KP5zwIYeTh0tXXjsRenIX0jP0JJcc8LVB8aY2Xa2EK ymxIFK1gjojmtpkC2zJcqVH6nBYpBCfvSaDkgcH4OQgRWPKfepqDQq1iGBWrKWDxe2BT vPSnf37JLDO0pqICYBEqvp7r1C3w1y4f8PP70wQEdO5w4h/tPnAhQZwVk+B3lk475pqa a/1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=zuSGsWZdJO8tHIgYwglpvG7vWbif2SydgS0kXPCJWzA=; b=II3Mmu3o6SbQjTDpQaU29sc5mmqLG9FLxbTu4kQ4/b7o7NKT63/KvQt+hUzsUaT0jO Su5MsHSb70qRmEhn0GP3KhzJzkSZYOYDUOUJBsbPfj7Jldo0QIdkMoW0Af+bS5NEQCcV CltrLqhepLIDsj+Ty7F1rP89/rsZT/oGBSDMaD8q+nuOLh2DU2oQvD90h4G829zE8cEY lWwjyf4s9Q64g2m5XW2WY0nmz9KVlA6wJvRuXxc941vkuyWqPPHqXxhNvTf68oOSwO0r 79dAoFceW0mpbQd+dMSSfFnBQNVr1IPF4eOPFUA0OZvMa9vv+WNdFYqSvh6SkAdOlsU2 3k9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H0RuDhKzxjrKrXBEQIAJxniG/0+H/Z5LKYQI7COSyOKbuhksKoDUFKhQvCVRgD9Sg== X-Received: by 10.98.209.73 with SMTP id t9mr12637814pfl.203.1490401581817; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [10.1.1.6] ([124.169.71.123]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o24sm6721483pfj.126.2017.03.24.17.26.19 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:26:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: Stephen Izett Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8870ADAE-4037-4FDA-9A56-605F5DED1156" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel Pump current and pressures Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 08:26:17 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <77964EDB-C699-49E1-80DA-CB3F06DAB1C9@icloud.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3259) --Apple-Mail=_8870ADAE-4037-4FDA-9A56-605F5DED1156 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Neil I didn=E2=80=99t think about altitude compensation, only manifold = pressure comp.=20 I didn=E2=80=99t think altitude came into it figuring the regs were = closed to the atmosphere just manifold.=20 Perhaps thats what you meant! I think I need to spend some money. I was always a bit iffy about using = a second hand reg anyway. Thanks Steve > On 25 Mar 2017, at 4:55 am, Neil Unger = wrote: >=20 > Steve, Pumps seem normal, work them harder and they will draw more = amps. same as climbing an aircraft, quicker climb =3D more hp. Looks = like your regulator cannot handle the flow as you have concluded. Does = the toyota reg altitude compensate? Forget what my reg is but cost a = lot of money, -- that I remember!! Neil. >=20 > On 3/24/2017 8:14 PM, steve Izett wrote: >> Hi Guys >> Hi Peoples >>=20 >> Here is a photo of our parallel pumps plumbed with 3/8 aluminium = lines feed from a 28 gallon header tank above to the right. >> Fuel then passes through the firewall and race filter before feeding = the rail and returning via the pressure regulator (4cyl toyota reg)=20 >> back through the firewall to the header tank, again in 3/8. >>=20 >> I did further measurements today.=20 >>=20 >> 1. Bottom Pump only ~8A and 48psi - Turning both pumps on this pump = draws 9.9A and produces a rail pressure of 65psi >> 2. Bottom Pump only ~9.9A and 44psi - Turning both pumps on this pump = draws 14.8A and produces the same rail pressure of 65psi >>=20 >> So bottom pump goes from 8.0 -> 9.9A (1.9A increase) under higher = head pressure >> Top pump goes from 9.9A -> 14.8A (5.1A increase) under same head!! >>=20 >> Clearly Pressure Reg bypass capacity is inadequate for both pumps, = perhaps with even one pump running.=20 >> (I don=E2=80=99t have data of fuel pressure under load to see if it = drops as power is applied) >> I think I modelled the pump layout/manifold after seeing someone = else=E2=80=99s and not sure if it causes any problems? >> The pumps came from eBay stating that they were genuine Walbro and = now I=E2=80=99m wondering. >>=20 >> Cheers >>=20 >> Steve Izett >> Glasair Super II RG Renesis 4 port RD1C EC3 EM3=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> >=20 --Apple-Mail=_8870ADAE-4037-4FDA-9A56-605F5DED1156 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Neil
I didn=E2=80=99t think about altitude = compensation, only manifold pressure comp. 
I = didn=E2=80=99t think altitude came into it figuring the regs were closed = to the atmosphere just manifold. 
Perhaps = thats what you meant!
I think I need to spend some = money. I was always a bit iffy about using a second hand reg = anyway.
Thanks
Steve


On = 25 Mar 2017, at 4:55 am, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=20 =20

Steve,  Pumps seem normal, work them harder and they = will draw more amps.  same as climbing an aircraft, quicker climb =3D = more hp.  Looks like your regulator cannot handle the flow as you = have concluded.  Does the toyota reg altitude compensate?  = Forget what my reg is but cost a lot of money, -- that I remember!!  = Neil.


On 3/24/2017 8:14 PM, steve Izett wrote:
Hi Guys
Hi Peoples

Here is a photo of our parallel pumps plumbed with 3/8 aluminium lines feed from a 28 gallon header tank above to the right.
Fuel then passes through the firewall and race filter before feeding the rail and returning via the pressure regulator (4cyl toyota reg) 
back through the firewall to the header tank, = again in 3/8.

I did further measurements today. 

1. Bottom Pump only ~8A and 48psi - Turning = both pumps on this pump draws 9.9A and produces a rail pressure of 65psi
2. Bottom Pump only ~9.9A and 44psi - Turning = both pumps on this pump draws 14.8A and produces the same rail pressure of 65psi

So bottom pump goes from 8.0 -> 9.9A (1.9A increase) under higher head pressure
Top pump goes from 9.9A -> 14.8A (5.1A = increase) under same head!!

Clearly Pressure Reg bypass capacity is inadequate for both pumps, perhaps with even one pump running. 
(I don=E2=80=99t have data of fuel pressure under = load to see if it drops as power is applied)
I think I modelled the pump layout/manifold after seeing someone else=E2=80=99s and not sure if it causes any = problems?
The pumps came from eBay stating that they were genuine Walbro and now I=E2=80=99m wondering.

Cheers

Steve Izett
Glasair Super II RG Renesis 4 port RD1C EC3 = EM3 





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