X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Kelly Troyer" Received: from mail-ot0-f172.google.com ([74.125.82.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c1) with ESMTPS id 9603491 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 24 Mar 2017 00:48:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.172; envelope-from=keltro@gmail.com Received: by mail-ot0-f172.google.com with SMTP id i1so2341492ota.3 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:48:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=fAVC9aTBmtUwD7RGp7E0Q1ccx7tdLxIq+OXHGQigRFk=; b=F7P9EvmpmHjoQtFLD7R/fuOHYBBoXCJK3R2mjxwh4tFlHdpZfxqI7Lu0IgFcI4K87C /+WhwpiEWep5CyTxbYEPdCaHfezcfR7s0YJzmmotRz2mTP1RvuH+i4ji4moSlsaNYpyL qEOlz/0CYuxOaXRDm5KiaqLDdmyf+bYIagAs66+an4nOyMyGZgvdqszZwMF15sN4d13U 3EU03srEqaUjSvJDhCH7547YjsE+O7IpTOublQoGBQuTvx9UgIrbj9ek+ESGMk0sCSC0 RDI3g8h02e7Y+onQMaqQCiNhrHFnJpaQCW79K8+r1sf46aAZVN6HdOTucY96RI6GQOot ciVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=fAVC9aTBmtUwD7RGp7E0Q1ccx7tdLxIq+OXHGQigRFk=; b=Xtsh4rj2YIjoCSafqFFXi6SvkuqK14RUbC5s2XG75i8c5thHM4u7De2HGaXTlK6c+K /RZoNYTUW3zRPQjilLjVJAWUsiYTONLz7oZRJWk8YjPaOCxfPQJTAMebBAnjU0feIgR0 bcuyZLyWA0nl/R331LfsdFZ2qgy2bnM1n1wIIZOs1JnIcWQW06uMFtKKZtulpxjAMHl7 +N9e2nyJCi04vnmjAnzv7L8tBdZNy72Wf8XxB7dQhLDsaoGAyrS6DyaUWJ0BkAe7qydp JHVmdoUTmzJ1Ozfvhf1/OVoZTAGx6HGu8TjsPKKpGnPQBdRyp14mHw17je0LJ2+QnjoC okcA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H1LoesQfmQG6vCz4eYtcMCyVYl+SbV7xtaSiTAX5LyJmoRTrDRk8Bgto1h4ehe70jmtMzdRdSnhnZ1qZA== X-Received: by 10.157.36.85 with SMTP id p79mr3649462ota.84.1490330875014; Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:47:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.59.196 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Mar 2017 21:47:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 23:47:54 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113adb8267326b054b72b272 --001a113adb8267326b054b72b272 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Steve, I find two versions of the Fluidyne DB 30618 oil cooler........One call a "Single Pass" Thermo HX Nascar version ($460.00) and a DB-30618 ($380.00) which may be a two pass (Does not Say)........Which are you using ??........... Kelly Troyer On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Steven W. Boese < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Dave, > > > The oil thermostat and bypass is internal to the oil cooler. Removing the > thermostat would allow the oil to always bypass the core no matter what the > temperature of the oil is. The pressure at the inlet to the oil cooler > would not be as high at lower RPM but still reach 150 psi at high RPM. > Without oil being forced to flow through the core, however, the cooling > effectiveness would be greatly reduced. I have not set up the oil cooler > this way. > > > It is also possible to remove the oil thermostat and block off the bypass > with a bolt and nut. This prevents the hot oil from flowing through the > bypass and mixing with the oil cooled by the core. Only the cooled oil > will exit the oil cooler then. The pressure at the oil cooler inlet would > reach 150 psi at lower RPM with this set up. I've tried this setup but > didn't make pressure measurements on it. > > > I've converted the RX7 oil cooler to single pass instead of double pass by > welding a -10 fitting on the tank at the opposite end of the normal > connections and removing the thermostat. The inlet pressure reached 150 > psi at about the same RPM (2800) as with the unmodified cooler with the > thermostat installed. This demonstrated the restrictive nature of the RX7 > core. > > > Steve Boese > RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf > of hoursaway1 > *Sent:* Thursday, March 23, 2017 6:52 PM > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review > > Steve, Dave Cook here, have you tried looking for that same pressure > build-up pre Mazda oil cooler with the temp by-pass removed/by-passed, I'm > thinking that is the cause of the restriction. David R. Cook RV6A Rotary > ,MI > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Steven W. Boese" > *To: *"Rotary motors in aircraft" > *Sent: *Thursday, March 23, 2017 12:11:21 AM > *Subject: *[FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review > > > Andrew, > > > A Fluidyne DB-30618 is the oil cooler I ended up with in the plane. > > > When a pressure gauge was installed in the line between the front cover > outlet and the RX7 oil cooler inlet, the pressure rose with increasing RPM > to 150 psi at 2800 RPM. Increasing RPM above 2800 resulted in a steady > pressure at 150 psi. Since the oil pump is a positive displacement pump, > additional oil flow above 2800 RPM passes through the relief valve into > the sump. At 5600 RPM half of the oil pumped by the oil pump never flows > through the oil cooler. > > > With the Fluidyne oil cooler, the pressure at its inlet never reaches 150 > psi so all of the oil passes through it. > > > An archive search for 25 Feb 2014 should find a description of various oil > cooler configurations that I tested. > > > Steve Boese > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf > of Andrew Martin > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:40:08 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review > > > This thread has perfect timing and great info for me. > > I was thinking of ditching my setup and simplifying it, but it looks like > every system is a compromise. > I just mounted a belly radiator which entailed moving the pumps & sump > tank. As other local pilots had commented on how complex my fuel system was > I thought it opportune to address it now. After following this thread > though I'm inclined to stick with this setup now as I know it works. and > just not let anyone else on the controls. > Only problem I have is I cannot tell the fuel level in the sump tank. Need > some sort of warning that I've drained a tank dry or have a vent or feed > problem. Am thinking of putting a sight glass in the return line from sump > to fuel selectors for a visual clue. > I like this setup as it allows me to feed from any or all tanks. not > needed but usually leave 1 transfer pump on. if both transfer pumps > happened to fail the fuel return path gives a free flow path from tanks to > sump also. > I have managed to empty the sump tank once when flow testing the system > but there was no back pressure on the system so regulator was not > circulating fuel. I guessed the tank vent lines (1/4") are just to small > when fuel flowing at 180l/hr and it vapourized in the sump. > > Steve. I'm interested to know the model No. of your fluidyne oil cooler. I > started with these mods because I couldn't control my oil temps, so new > belly radiator installed to give oil cooler all the cowl air, but I never > thought that the mazda cooler may be blocking oil flow. Whats the clue that > the front relief valve is opening? > > Andrew > > > -- Kelly Troyer Dyke Delta_"Eventually" 13B_RD1C_EC2_EM2 --001a113adb8267326b054b72b272 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve,
=C2=A0I find two versions of the Fluidyne DB 30= 618 oil cooler........One call a "Single Pass" Thermo HX Nascar v= ersion ($460.00)
and a DB-30618 ($380.00) which may be a two pass= (Does not Say)........Which are you using ??...........

Kelly Troyer

On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Steven W. Boese <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Dave,


The oil thermostat and bypass is internal to the oil cooler.=C2=A0 Remov= ing the thermostat would allow the oil to always bypass the core no matter = what the temperature of the oil is.=C2=A0 The pressure at the inlet to the = oil cooler would not be as high at lower RPM but still reach 150 psi at high RPM.=C2=A0 Without oil being forced to flo= w through the core, however,=C2=A0the cooling effectiveness would be greatl= y reduced.=C2=A0 I have not=C2=A0set up=C2=A0the oil cooler this way.


It is also possible to remove the oil thermostat and block off the bypas= s with a bolt and nut.=C2=A0 This=C2=A0prevents the=C2=A0hot oil from flowi= ng through the bypass and mixing with the oil=C2=A0cooled=C2=A0by=C2=A0the = core.=C2=A0 Only the cooled oil will exit the oil cooler then.=C2=A0 The pressure at the oil cooler inlet would reach 150 psi at lower RPM with thi= s set up.=C2=A0 I've=C2=A0tried this setup but didn't make pressure= measurements on it.


I've converted the RX7 oil cooler to single pass instead of double p= ass by welding a -10 fitting on the tank at the opposite end of the normal = connections and removing the thermostat.=C2=A0 The inlet pressure reached 1= 50 psi at about the same RPM (2800) as with the=C2=A0unmodified cooler with the thermostat installed.=C2=A0 This demon= strated the restrictive nature of the RX7 core.

=C2=A0

Steve Boese
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2


From: = Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on behalf of hoursa= way1 <f= lyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 6:52 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review
=C2=A0
Steve, Dave Cook here, have you tried looking for=C2=A0that same press= ure build-up pre Mazda oil cooler with the temp by-pass removed/by-passed, = I'm thinking that is the cause of the restriction. David R. Cook=C2=A0 = RV6A Rotary ,MI

From: "Steven W. Boese" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&= gt;
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 12:11:21 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: fuel system peer review


Andrew,


A Fluidyne DB-30618 is the oil cooler I ended up with in the plane= .


When a pressure gauge was installed in the line between the front cover = outlet and the RX7 oil cooler inlet, the pressure rose with increasing RPM = to 150 psi at 2800 RPM.=C2=A0 Increasing RPM above 2800 resulted in a stead= y pressure at 150 psi.=C2=A0 Since the oil pump is a positive displacement pump, additional oil flow above 2800= RPM passes through the relief valve into the sump.=C2=A0 At 5600 RP= M half of the oil pumped by the oil pump never flows through the oil cooler= .


With the Fluidyne oil cooler, the pressure at its inlet never reaches 15= 0 psi so all of the oil passes through it.


An archive search for 25 Feb 2014 should find a description of various o= il cooler configurations that I tested.


Steve Boese




This thread has perfect timing and great info for me.

I was thinking of ditching my setup and simplifying it, but it looks like e= very system is a compromise.
I just mounted a belly radiator which entailed moving the pumps & sump = tank. As other local pilots had commented on how complex my fuel system was= I thought it opportune to address it now. After following this thread thou= gh I'm inclined to stick with this setup now as I know it works. and just not let anyone else on the controls.
Only problem I have is I cannot tell the fuel level in the sump tank. Need = some sort of warning that I've drained a tank dry or have a vent or fee= d problem. Am thinking of putting a sight glass in the return line from sum= p to fuel selectors for a visual clue.
I like this setup as it allows me to feed from any or all tanks. not needed= but usually leave 1 transfer pump on. if both transfer pumps happened to f= ail the fuel return path gives a free flow path from tanks to sump also.
I have managed to empty the sump tank once when flow testing the system but= there was no back pressure on the system so regulator was not circulating = fuel. I guessed the tank vent lines (1/4") are just to small when fuel= flowing at 180l/hr and it vapourized in the sump.

Steve. I'm interested to know the model No. of your fluidyne oil cooler= . I started with these mods because I couldn't control my oil temps, so= new belly radiator installed to give oil cooler all the cowl air, but I ne= ver thought that the mazda cooler may be blocking oil flow. Whats the clue that the front relief valve is opening?<= br>
Andrew





--
Kelly Troyer
Dyk= e Delta_"Eventually"
13B_RD1C_EC2_EM2
--001a113adb8267326b054b72b272--