X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: Received: from mail-qt0-f174.google.com ([209.85.216.174] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c1) with ESMTPS id 9599997 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 23 Mar 2017 07:09:33 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.174; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by mail-qt0-f174.google.com with SMTP id i34so172151570qtc.0 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2017 04:09:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:mime-version:to:from:subject:date:importance:in-reply-to :references; bh=JM9eF6K933Rov2bdopzFT7sClb8oKbpxg4x7LE3s59E=; b=VYWMZSKFtox0ksBXoMnhzHWQ7e1yudKWt+9WBtd3aMPNGlZr4eiFJg9KTU4jIo7orX RepoZnO+CWw9L/+rXWexp0k3Fxd7kyyVcjDXsGcU7Y9Q2vQhb08YAQSJu5JAT1fLIDJi INIlXTUyRQMCPomSLLMU6W1v5oCVxp8H5HGzfcdWwkCzoErYahHzj8xqcsO5pjnK0UOe 6Hte/i4I8l2CbYtc3XO6hQXB5fXIx4x7mapV8A6TGEMctf3HawyNcerL0LnjE6wRP8NC nqdVTBbBXzEMeGanGPsm/H3D9eON4WspylTAJQh8LrMT8DE9y8ryt2BiItShzwuThQao iuYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:mime-version:to:from:subject:date :importance:in-reply-to:references; bh=JM9eF6K933Rov2bdopzFT7sClb8oKbpxg4x7LE3s59E=; b=HtRm+QccFg13RYCl2hcIKMezjs1I2FBw/BuXdYuaxGVE/fLkKoFF5Vr4efnNaafKBo dR6W0NH0eaAUW9erGDr03ORGWvXhfuiVPcfFKNGF26uf0S4HjjuvNE4j+Th9Q2LozXeC 5I+m45nkUaRhNwcidgyOmVdNVeY3H70qIMLATdV9Mn4TkzpLfE1KVu8J3RAQx9DRIm5G DBhWlXW1BujZX4YIqCF9xftCuYScZ6/ICfIYmkellUYkcd1cXNPCGSt/4bb+Ubq4iKNG upH0Say7cZO/HBSHXkJu4yzzCF7qLZvE8Y/Iw2WFMWfut+1E5MTm5B2mKxTp7WwDBeDn GdOg== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H3IF/z2NTCp9U83GYtVLOg6eTocmO0d5PxEFTGcJASvSioDkLDg/DbEm6SVWJPDiA== X-Received: by 10.200.35.250 with SMTP id r55mr1582909qtr.280.1490267355979; Thu, 23 Mar 2017 04:09:15 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:::ffff:192.168.254.5? (h224.112.131.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net. [174.131.112.224]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y33sm2992374qta.27.2017.03.23.04.09.14 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 23 Mar 2017 04:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <58d3acda.6432c80a.de47a.04ec@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [FlyRotary] Re: RD1-c Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2017 07:09:12 -0400 Importance: normal X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_B7D343A7-4B4C-4A21-8665-368F01EE4587_" --_B7D343A7-4B4C-4A21-8665-368F01EE4587_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thanks for the info Bobby. If I=E2=80=99m thinking of the same gear drive,= on #4, readers should be aware that the =C2=BC inch bolts mentioned are th= e bolts mounting the ring gear bulkhead to the drive housing, not the =C2= =BC=E2=80=9D bolts mounting the drive to the adapter plate. I agree that t= he violent missing of the engine during debug was the cause of that failure= . No other drives have had that problem. Tracy =20 Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 3:56 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [FlyRotary] Re: RD1-c Mark's RD-1C had several modifications.=20 1. Rivets were replaced with tight tolerance -3 bolts after observing smoking rivets. - Tracy made a design change for a different rivet to address the potential problem. 2. Sheer pin was replace with a larger size after breaking on the ground. - Tracy did the modification.=20 3. Oil seal retainer was fabricated and installed after a blowout. Mark was not using Tracy's original plate. He and another builder machined a new plate to allow the starter to be relocated and pick up an additional mounting hole available on the 20B. He suspects the machining tolerance were too tight and the seal would have benefited from a tolerance more toward the middle of the oil seal OEM specified range. He was also using a single oil return line so an additional line for the front gearbox oil drain was added back to the pan.=20 4. Routine inspection found all but one of the 1/4" bolts had sheared. After discussion with Tracy the housing was tapped for 5/16" bolts and additional holes were drilled and tapped between the original bolts. Now the rest of the story.=20 Mark experimented with adapting the Renesis CAS to the 20B. We got it to work but the engine and gearbox went through several very rough tuning sessions. Several CAS mounting brackets for "stiffness" and eventually a resister/ Zener diode circuit solved the hard stumble at 5200-5600 rpm . This was repeated again when Mark made the P-Port engine swap. He gave up on the renesis CAS and reverted back to the stock CAS. However this didn't correct the issue. He eventually identified missing fuel injector diodes that are required for the EC2/ 20B combination. They were omitted when he rewired the P-Port engine.=20 Mark believed unusual stress (torque reversals) was placed on the gearbox during the many extended tuning and troubleshooting sessions. He believed this was the root cause of items 2 and 4. FWIW I'm running and unmodified RD-1C and my inspections have not uncovered any of these items. I do have some shaft wear at the 1mm thrust washer. I put 72 hours on the plane last year and will do another gearbox inspection in about 30 hours. I have considered modifying for 5/16" bolts and upsizing the sheer pin when I swap my super charger for a turbo.=20 Bobby Hughes About 400 hours on the engine and gearbox including ground runs.=20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 1:54 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [FlyRotary] Re: RD1-c Team, I picked up on this email chain as it may affect me directly. I recently purchased Mark Steitle's 20B and have been mating it to my airframe over the last few weeks. If I recall correctly, Mark had a modification to the RD-1C prop flange for larger diam bolts but do not recall any mods to the flex plate / isolators. If anyone knows otherwise please share. Thank you! Luis Luciano Velocity XL-5 "Dulcinea" Mazda Inside -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 1:33 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [FlyRotary] Re: RD1-c have been pouring from the beginning =20 Rich =20 In a message dated 3/22/2017 12:29:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: =09 On 3/22/2017 12:01 PM, ARGOLDMAN wrote: =09 =09 =20 Greetings all. I need a little advice, if you would be so kind. =20 I have a RD1-C, with the flex-plate rubber isolators, which I am currently marrying to the un-modified Renesis that I have just rebuilt. =20 Reading Paul's list, he was talking about replacing the 1/4" bolts (flat head screws) that hold the ring gear to the casing, with 5/16" bolts because he found them sheared in a unit that he disassembled (unknown was the power plant modifications that drove the reducer.) =20 What, if any are the recommendations to do this alteration? =20 Thanks in advance =20 Rich =20 Well first, continue to read Paul's list, but keep a large container of salt handy, with the aperture set to 'pour'. =09 Others may have better recall than I, but I'm pretty sure the drive in question was Mark Steitle's, running on a P ported 20B (3 rotor). =09 Charlie =20 =09 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html --_B7D343A7-4B4C-4A21-8665-368F01EE4587_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"

Thanks for the info Bobby.=C2=A0 If = I=E2=80=99m thinking of the same gear drive, on #4, readers should be aware= that the =C2=BC inch bolts mentioned are the bolts mounting the ring gear = bulkhead to the drive housing, not the =C2=BC=E2=80=9D bolts mounting the d= rive to the adapter plate.=C2=A0 I agree that the violent missing of the en= gine during debug was the cause of that failure.=C2=A0 No other drives have= had that problem.

 

Tracy=C2=A0

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 3:56 P= M
To: Rotary motor= s in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: [Non-DoD Source] [FlyR= otary] Re: RD1-c

 

Mark's RD-1C had several modifications.

 

1. Rivets were replaced with = tight tolerance -3 bolts after observing

smoking ri= vets.=C2=A0 - Tracy made a design change for a different rivet to

address the potential problem.

2. Sh= eer pin was replace with a larger size after breaking on the

ground. - Tracy did the modification.

3.= Oil seal retainer was fabricated and installed after a blowout. Mark

was not using Tracy's original plate. He and another bui= lder machined a

new plate to allow the starter to b= e relocated and pick up an additional

mounting hole= available on the 20B. He suspects the machining tolerance

were too tight and the seal would have benefited from a tolerance m= ore

toward the middle of the oil seal OEM specified= range. He was also using

a single oil return line = so an additional line for the front gearbox oil

dra= in was added back to the pan.

4. Routine inspectio= n found all but one of the 1/4" bolts had sheared.

After discussion with Tracy the housing was tapped for 5/16" bolt= s and

additional holes were drilled and tapped betw= een the original bolts.

 

Now the rest of the story.

&n= bsp;

Mark experimented with adapting the Rene= sis CAS to the 20B. We got it to

work but the engin= e and gearbox went through several very rough tuning

sessions. Several CAS mounting brackets for "stiffness" and eve= ntually a

resister/ Zener diode circuit solved the = hard stumble at 5200-5600 rpm .

This was repeated a= gain when Mark made the P-Port engine swap. He=C2=A0 gave

up on the renesis CAS and reverted back to the stock CAS. However th= is

didn't correct the issue. He eventually identifi= ed missing fuel injector

diodes that are required f= or the EC2/ 20B combination. They were omitted

when= he rewired the P-Port engine.

 

Mark believed unusual stress (torque reversals) was = placed on the

gearbox during the many extended tuni= ng and troubleshooting sessions. He

believed this w= as the root cause of items 2 and 4. FWIW I'm running and

unmodified RD-1C and my inspections have not uncovered any of these

items. I do have some shaft wear at the 1mm thrust w= asher. I put 72

hours on the plane last year and wi= ll do another gearbox inspection in

about 30 hours.= I have considered modifying for 5/16" bolts and upsizing

the sheer pin when I swap my super charger for a turbo.

 

Bobby Hughes

About 400 hours on the engine and gearbox including = ground runs.

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Rota= ry motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]

Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 1:54 PM

To= : Rotary motors in aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re= : [Non-DoD Source] [FlyRotary] Re: RD1-c

 = ;

Team,

 

I picked up on this email chain as it may affe= ct me directly.=C2=A0 I

recently purchased Mark Ste= itle's 20B and have been mating it to my

airframe o= ver the last few weeks.=C2=A0 If I recall correctly, Mark had a

modification to the RD-1C prop flange for larger diam bolts bu= t do not

recall any mods to the flex plate / isolat= ors.=C2=A0 If anyone knows

otherwise please share.<= /p>

 

Thank you= !

 

Luis Lu= ciano

Velocity XL-5 "Dulcinea"

Mazda Inside

 

-----Original Message-----

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]

Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 1:33 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft

Subject: [Non-DoD S= ource] [FlyRotary] Re: RD1-c

 

<= p class=3DMsoNormal>have been pouring from the beginning

<http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/02>

Rich

In a message = dated 3/22/2017 12:29:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

 

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 On 3/22/20= 17 12:01 PM, ARGOLDMAN wrote:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

 

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Greetings all. I need a little advi= ce, if you would be

so kind.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I have a RD1-C= , with the flex-plate rubber isolators,

which I am = currently marrying to the un-modified Renesis that I have

just rebuilt.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Reading Paul's list, he was talking about re= placing the

1/4" bolts (flat head screws) that= hold the ring gear to the casing,

with 5/16" = bolts because he found them sheared in a unit that he

disassembled (unknown was the power plant modifications that drove the

reducer.)

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 What, if any are the recommendation= s to do this

alteration?

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks in advance=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Rich

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

 

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Well first, continue to read Paul's list, but keep a large<= /p>

container of salt handy, with the aperture set to '= pour'.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <= /p>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Others m= ay have better recall than I, but I'm pretty sure the

drive in question was Mark Steitle's, running on a P ported 20B (3

rotor).

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 Charlie

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0

 

<= o:p> 

--

Homepag= e:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSu= b:=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 

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