X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Neil Unger" Received: from nskntmtas02p.mx.bigpond.com ([61.9.168.140] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.11) with ESMTPS id 8835716 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 29 Jul 2016 17:41:56 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=61.9.168.140; envelope-from=neil.unger@bigpond.com Received: from nskntcmgw08p ([61.9.169.168]) by nskntmtas02p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20160729214136.YLWK2042.nskntmtas02p.mx.bigpond.com@nskntcmgw08p> for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2016 21:41:36 +0000 Received: from UserPC ([58.168.24.158]) by nskntcmgw08p with BigPond Outbound id Qlhb1t00K3QfiEJ01lhb3R; Fri, 29 Jul 2016 21:41:35 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=DL5ymH5b c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=CD7DgOT41J1Xyasgp3+QVg==:117 a=CD7DgOT41J1Xyasgp3+QVg==:17 a=L9H7d07YOLsA:10 a=9cW_t1CCXrUA:10 a=s5jvgZ67dGcA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=mRgjHrBC36RycHA0ujAA:9 a=tdbiBUEsK-BkmtBZ:21 a=kL6STBvfojmH5Chg:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=OZ7x6H1l6zTvrPaF2hcA:9 a=M9_wxxiTTxmd3MaD:21 a=2rnCoH9-mQWU9-P8:21 a=smNIBpA5SC0TOY50:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=NWVoK91CQySWRX1oVYDe:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 Message-ID: <92ADF9A2310C4CF4AFE1702EC2B6BC33@UserPC> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Further testing Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 07:40:43 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01D1EA35.ADC1CAA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3555.308 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01D1EA35.ADC1CAA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, I did initially install the MAP sensor pipes in the oiling holes = and it was a total failure due to getting both vacuum and pressure in = each cycle. Changed it back to just under the throttle bodies and all = was well. Oil holes definitely not! Neil. From: steve Izett=20 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:37 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Further testing Hi Christian=20 What did irregular map signals look like in terms of engine running on = your engine? What engine/setup do you have? Steve On 29 Jul 2016, at 7:50 PM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald = wrote: Hi Steve=20 Just my 2 cents, I had irregular map signals so I installed a mig = welding tip for .6 wire and that sorted it out simply for me. Cheers Christian On Friday, 29 July 2016, steve Izett = wrote: Hi Guys We did further testing of the Renesis today. Would really appreciate = your heads on this. Last series of tests we had this major missing and noise which I = think is fuel exploding in the exhaust. This happens at various RPM=E2=80=99s based on load from the = adjustable prop. With fine pitch it would spin out to just over 7000rpm before = striking this mayhem. With medium pitch it would get to 6000rpm before the same symptoms. From memory these were both at about 22-23 inches of Hg. My Wideband O2 is malfunctioning at present. The narrowband response time appears to slow to discover what the = mixture is doing during the episodes. Also still having trouble with the EM3. Sometimes display reads what = appears to be an error message and at other times stops reading RPM. The Skyview Engine monitor has the same issue at the same RPM so = appears directly related. I changed the input on the Skyview to the Standard RPM input as I = incorrectly fed the injector pulse to the lower voltage input, but this = made no difference. I had wondered if the secondary injectors weren=E2=80=99t getting = power and as a consequence when it staged to all 4 injectors the trouble = began. Using the EM3 display (staging asterisk) and switching power off to = the secondaries I was able to ascertain that the secondaries appear to = be functioning fine. I did notice that the point of staging appears to be not solid. This takes me back to Ed=E2=80=99s comments re damping the manifold = signal to the EC2. Sorry Ed, you might have had it right last week. I thought because = it was running so smoothly up to 23 inches that it wasn=E2=80=99t a = signal issue. Maybe the wavelength/timing of those pulses at ~6000rpm matches the = manifold signal tap position! Ed, you mentioned either small orifice or accumulator. I estimate = the volume of the signal line to be approx 18 cubic centimetres. My gut was that the accumulator required to damp the signal would = need to be an order of magnitude larger. (total guess) So maybe 180 cc=E2=80=99s but thats half a Coke can! Seem=E2=80=99s = way to big. Ed, did I understand you right that a small fuel filter can do the = trick? I thought they would only be about 10 cc=E2=80=99s in volume. I suppose if the pulses are very narrow/short maybe thats all to = takes to damp out the pulses. Can I ask the group please. Who had trouble with manifold signal and = what was the solution that worked best. Paul Lamar advocates tapping the signal from the oil injection = ports. Has/is anyone using this solution? Thanks very much everyone. Steve Izett Glasair Super II RG Reneis 4 port EC2 EM3 RD1-C -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01D1EA35.ADC1CAA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve,  I did initially install the MAP sensor pipes in the = oiling=20 holes and it was a total failure due to getting both vacuum and pressure = in each=20 cycle.  Changed it back to just under the throttle bodies and all = was=20 well.  Oil holes definitely not!  Neil.
 
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 11:37 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Further testing
 
Hi=20 Christian=20
What did irregular map signals look like in terms of engine running = on your=20 engine?
What engine/setup do you have?
 
Steve
On 29 Jul 2016, at 7:50 PM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:
 
Hi Steve=20
Just my 2 cents, I had irregular map signals so I installed a mig = welding=20 tip for .6 wire and that sorted it out simply for me.
 
Cheers
Christian

On Friday, 29 July 2016, steve Izett <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:
Hi=20 Guys

We did further testing of the Renesis today. Would = really=20 appreciate your heads on this.
Last series of tests we had this = major=20 missing and noise which I think is fuel exploding in the = exhaust.
This=20 happens at various RPM=E2=80=99s based on load from the adjustable = prop.
With=20 fine pitch it would spin out to just over 7000rpm before striking = this=20 mayhem.
With medium pitch it would get to 6000rpm before the same = symptoms.
From memory these were both at about 22-23 inches of = Hg.
My=20 Wideband O2 is malfunctioning at present.
The narrowband response = time=20 appears to slow to discover what the mixture is doing during the=20 episodes.

Also still having trouble with the EM3. Sometimes = display=20 reads what appears to be an error message and at other times stops = reading=20 RPM.
The Skyview Engine monitor has the same issue at the same = RPM so=20 appears directly related.
I changed the input on the Skyview to = the=20 Standard RPM input as I incorrectly fed the injector pulse to the = lower=20 voltage input, but this made no difference.

I had wondered if = the=20 secondary injectors weren=E2=80=99t getting power and as a = consequence when it=20 staged to all 4 injectors the trouble began.
Using the EM3 = display=20 (staging asterisk) and switching power off to the secondaries I was = able to=20 ascertain that the secondaries appear to be functioning fine.
I = did=20 notice that the point of staging appears to be not solid.
This = takes me=20 back to Ed=E2=80=99s comments re damping the manifold signal to the = EC2.
Sorry=20 Ed, you might have had it right last week. I thought because it was = running=20 so smoothly up to 23 inches that it wasn=E2=80=99t a signal = issue.
Maybe the=20 wavelength/timing of those pulses at ~6000rpm matches the manifold = signal=20 tap position!

Ed, you mentioned either small orifice or = accumulator.=20 I estimate the volume of the signal line to be approx 18 cubic=20 centimetres.
My gut was that the accumulator required to damp the = signal=20 would need to be an order of magnitude larger. (total guess)
So = maybe 180=20 cc=E2=80=99s but thats half a Coke can! Seem=E2=80=99s way to = big.
Ed, did I understand=20 you right that a small fuel filter can do the trick? I thought they = would=20 only be about 10 cc=E2=80=99s in volume.
I suppose if the pulses = are very=20 narrow/short maybe thats all to takes to damp out the = pulses.

Can I=20 ask the group please. Who had trouble with manifold signal and what = was the=20 solution that worked best.
Paul Lamar advocates tapping the = signal from=20 the oil injection ports. Has/is anyone using this = solution?

Thanks=20 very much everyone.

Steve Izett
Glasair Super II = RG
Reneis 4=20 port EC2 EM3 = RD1-C








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Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l
 
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