X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: Received: from omr-m013e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.14] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.11) with ESMTPS id 8834522 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 29 Jul 2016 11:26:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.29.186.14; envelope-from=argoldman@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mcd01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mcd01.mx.aol.com [172.26.223.207]) by omr-m013e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id C96DC38000AD for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2016 11:26:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-abb06b.mail.aol.com (core-abb06.mail.aol.com [172.27.0.6]) by mtaomg-mcd01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id D89EC38000085 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2016 11:26:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 67.167.230.135 by webprd-m98.mail.aol.com (10.74.63.54) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 29 Jul 2016 11:26:35 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 11:26:36 -0400 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-Id: <1563743a749-6c52-435@webprd-m98.mail.aol.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Further testing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1427_768917541.1469805995843" X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS STD X-Originating-IP: [67.167.230.135] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1469805997; bh=aKoGc4P6ToQN4HM3U2UZMd5R1oVCk+YwpvOy4EATyuA=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=qGlesDh92ebYvodc3mBmkGo5femr1Q+6rJ7TrvyFt7Hx0qmT7WzGfMEdVfUMECGSp ymmYKMbCc36kX8yerR/iCBDq0zoB0zzFtba0xOlGFefS/7WtXaUS8sTRuQPCp3xSCG a+DrfBJzouIM/s+wMxamQQJfCKy0DRPYEMQTrhDI= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1adfcf579b75ac38e7 ------=_Part_1427_768917541.1469805995843 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable lessee, Just a wild guess..with no basis except for a diagnostic tree-- You are hav= ing trouble with the running of your engine the injection timing and the ig= nition timing of which are dependent on the RPM. Separately, you are havin= g problems with the RPM indication. Could there be a link here??? When you are having the engine problems are you also having the RPM proble= ms? I would look for the commonality of the systems as a clue. although the ind= ication may be a result of the problem that is causing the bad engine opera= tion. Good luck hunting. Rich=20 =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Bobby J. Hughes To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, Jul 29, 2016 9:22 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Further testing Steve, The attachment has everything I can remember from my on adventures and note= s I collected from others. Hopefully one of the items will help. Could be a= combination of two items.=20 Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 4:20 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Further testing Hi Guys We did further testing of the Renesis today. Would really appreciate your h= eads on this. Last series of tests we had this major missing and noise which I think is f= uel exploding in the exhaust. This happens at various RPM=E2=80=99s based on load from the adjustable pro= p. With fine pitch it would spin out to just over 7000rpm before striking this= mayhem. With medium pitch it would get to 6000rpm before the same symptoms. From memory these were both at about 22-23 inches of Hg. My Wideband O2 is malfunctioning at present.=20 The narrowband response time appears to slow to discover what the mixture i= s doing during the episodes. Also still having trouble with the EM3. Sometimes display reads what appear= s to be an error message and at other times stops reading RPM. The Skyview Engine monitor has the same issue at the same RPM so appears di= rectly related. I changed the input on the Skyview to the Standard RPM input as I incorrect= ly fed the injector pulse to the lower voltage input, but this made no diff= erence. I had wondered if the secondary injectors weren=E2=80=99t getting power and= as a consequence when it staged to all 4 injectors the trouble began. Using the EM3 display (staging asterisk) and switching power off to the sec= ondaries I was able to ascertain that the secondaries appear to be function= ing fine. I did notice that the point of staging appears to be not solid. This takes me back to Ed=E2=80=99s comments re damping the manifold signal = to the EC2. Sorry Ed, you might have had it right last week. I thought because it was r= unning so smoothly up to 23 inches that it wasn=E2=80=99t a signal issue. Maybe the wavelength/timing of those pulses at ~6000rpm matches the manifol= d signal tap position! Ed, you mentioned either small orifice or accumulator. I estimate the volum= e of the signal line to be approx 18 cubic centimetres. My gut was that the accumulator required to damp the signal would need to b= e an order of magnitude larger. (total guess) So maybe 180 cc=E2=80=99s but= thats half a Coke can! Seem=E2=80=99s way to big. Ed, did I understand you right that a small fuel filter can do the trick? I= thought they would only be about 10 cc=E2=80=99s in volume. I suppose if the pulses are very narrow/short maybe thats all to takes to d= amp out the pulses. Can I ask the group please. Who had trouble with manifold signal and what w= as the solution that worked best. Paul Lamar advocates tapping the signal from the oil injection ports. Has/i= s anyone using this solution? Thanks very much everyone. Steve Izett Glasair Super II RG Reneis 4 port EC2 EM3 RD1-C =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html ------=_Part_1427_768917541.1469805995843 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable lessee,
Just a wild guess..with no basis except for a diagnostic tree-- You are hav= ing trouble with the running of your engine the injection timing and the ig= nition timing of  which are dependent on the RPM. Separately, you are = having problems with the RPM indication. Could there be a link here???
 When you are having the engine problems are you also having the RPM p= roblems?

I would look for the commonality of the systems as a clue. although the ind= ication may be a result of the problem that is causing the bad engine opera= tion.

Good luck hunting.

Rich



-----= Original Message-----
From: Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, Jul 29, 2016 9:22 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Further testing

Steve,

The attachment has everything I can remember from my on adventures and note= s I collected from others. Hopefully one of the items will help. Could be a= combination of two items.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 4:20 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Further testing

Hi Guys

We did further testing of the Renesis today. Would really appreciate your h= eads on this.
Last series of tests we had this major missing and noise which I think is f= uel exploding in the exhaust.
This happens at various RPM=E2=80=99s based on load from the adjustable pro= p.
With fine pitch it would spin out to just over 7000rpm before striking this= mayhem.
With medium pitch it would get to 6000rpm before the same symptoms.
From memory these were both at about 22-23 inches of Hg.
My Wideband O2 is malfunctioning at present.
The narrowband response time appears to slow to discover what the mixture i= s doing during the episodes.

Also still having trouble with the EM3. Sometimes display reads what appear= s to be an error message and at other times stops reading RPM.
The Skyview Engine monitor has the same issue at the same RPM so appears di= rectly related.
I changed the input on the Skyview to the Standard RPM input as I incorrect= ly fed the injector pulse to the lower voltage input, but this made no diff= erence.

I had wondered if the secondary injectors weren=E2=80=99t getting power and= as a consequence when it staged to all 4 injectors the trouble began.
Using the EM3 display (staging asterisk) and switching power off to the sec= ondaries I was able to ascertain that the secondaries appear to be function= ing fine.
I did notice that the point of staging appears to be not solid.
This takes me back to Ed=E2=80=99s comments re damping the manifold signal = to the EC2.
Sorry Ed, you might have had it right last week. I thought because it was r= unning so smoothly up to 23 inches that it wasn=E2=80=99t a signal issue. Maybe the wavelength/timing of those pulses at ~6000rpm matches the manifol= d signal tap position!

Ed, you mentioned either small orifice or accumulator. I estimate the volum= e of the signal line to be approx 18 cubic centimetres.
My gut was that the accumulator required to damp the signal would need to b= e an order of magnitude larger. (total guess) So maybe 180 cc=E2=80=99s but= thats half a Coke can! Seem=E2=80=99s way to big.
Ed, did I understand you right that a small fuel filter can do the trick? I= thought they would only be about 10 cc=E2=80=99s in volume.
I suppose if the pulses are very narrow/short maybe thats all to takes to d= amp out the pulses.

Can I ask the group please. Who had trouble with manifold signal and what w= as the solution that worked best.
Paul Lamar advocates tapping the signal from the oil injection ports. Has/i= s anyone using this solution?

Thanks very much everyone.

Steve Izett
Glasair Super II RG
Reneis 4 port EC2 EM3 RD1-C








--
Homepage: http://w= ww.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/f= lyrotary/List.html
--
Homepage: http://w= ww.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/f= lyrotary/List.html
 ------=_Part_1427_768917541.1469805995843--