X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Charlie England" Received: from mail-yw0-f180.google.com ([209.85.161.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.11) with ESMTPS id 8821438 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 09:03:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.180; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-yw0-f180.google.com with SMTP id r9so11217229ywg.0 for ; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 06:03:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=TzocechhqLNoGFnKcsrYCKBHu4y+R03ZBYkFzJ8ZmTc=; b=QibrpXvXFuVIV4iJU6GGWPK+kSdUiVkkh+5UqP7V0JEzqitAQUiIoC2L1quNNwOCiJ K4+Z8wjy8+yYIAUOf3E+Kv80HgZg9F9okXD0MEPSdKnTiSyGQdCNa2MjSzDAlNWoRqQP wVXeRzOJU2d8PCPr3BeOIDPyuWXWZeXTlsEeeQJmcEUnwdiQ5zsS3ukm1gqdMDVyP32f fCPwsvgxgzNtvZeBYHeMZVGiukS7pW7aBntGhOCIhW9/a8sOZL852iCu8RSK/3AM3qPU xZy1Im+tVhbTvfWUV28NfUTD4sPbodptwmtOmnwHPpcZJinJ9Oy7LjLQ6UNBJ2HrKX2X Scww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=TzocechhqLNoGFnKcsrYCKBHu4y+R03ZBYkFzJ8ZmTc=; b=LRckEk2ayti8tvnMNVvreHWKj0abLxwlHlMa5IarChSG6jXoRD4nxq02V3gHC4H2cZ xvzYhd8nFcdakOzbMNvZxOyt8lJAjc0D9yGtjjsAjwKnH6xC0P5vawnqRyaDpXgPfU0i qTqtOvnv6p6rWp/XU3eJLa6GJb6jIvC+E3o5mgHUKPrIRHW5zB1ai/PTrNC35ezquAEs 9ZLCcdIgAVA2cqvnSnT/yysbSDKFBK6MwCSFYDm5CK/5fMrZxvgzGoDqC61k+iBLeatF cVmN9lUxu8tgBOiclWqiOrR3tHTb0uraQmzoeQlSrYkTNVNDnLk+FuywTbQ8FM4WoGPi tW5g== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkoouuLhRCOFECf9YsEaI8sRIxwfHZNB4D7WtNKD+FdMwlttFNaLTEMDf9Z1A+B5zT25a1W236gxWVWCKsxyg== X-Received: by 10.129.137.68 with SMTP id z65mr10697959ywf.215.1469538198983; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 06:03:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.129.164.21 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 06:03:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 08:03:18 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine miss To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c064ac055983e0538898653 --94eb2c064ac055983e0538898653 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd agree; that's a good 1st step for troubleshooting. 1st goal is to determine whether the interference is getting in the EC2 through the power line, the ground line, or it's RF energy entering the EC2 directly, through either the case or the many input/output wires of the EC2. Someone posted that Tracy had added filtering inside the EC2 at some point. I don't know how he implemented the filtering, but if each controller has its own filters, then one could be missing, or failed. Don't forget what Bobby re-posted about radio problems: "I believe I bucked my last rivet last night on the forward upper deck. The plane will be heading to the airport in a couple weeks but will be making a detour to the paint shop on the way. You will like this, when I completed the wiring I ran the engine one more time to verify the newly completed system. To my amazement everything worked, even the interior lights, until I hit the PTT to see if I could pick anybody up. When I pushed the PTT the engine would almost quite and the EM2 would start to scramble, even the FM radio on the garage wall would quite. After a calls to the Gulf Coast Avionics techs is was soon apparent that they led me on a trouble shooting trip that led to nowhere. After a weeks vacation from work and the plane I came home with a fresh mind and discovered a direct short to ground from the coax center conductor to the radio case. A bad radio right out of the box". It's pretty unlikely you'd have exactly the same failure that Sam had in that post, but you can have a similar issue *outside* the radio. Prep of the coax, or any of the connectors, could result in either RF radiating off the shield (if the shield is 'floating' at either end), or RF radiating directly into the airframe, as described in the text above. When troubleshooting, you usually want to change one thing at a time. But a variation in troubleshooting (when possible) is to split the possible causes into big segments, and eliminate a segment from the equation. In your case, you could power the EC2 from a separate source, as Jeff mentioned. If so, remember that you likely have lots of grounded devices related to the EC2, still connected to the airframe (leaving a path for interference). You could also borrow another radio *and antenna, with coax*. Wire power & ground direct to the battery, and transmit with nothing related to the original radio operational. If the problem disappears, you know the problem is probably in either your radio or your wiring. A quick check of antenna/coax is to substitute a known-good piece of coax and antenna (antenna can be just hung out the door for this test). I realize that setting up another radio might be tough to do unless there's a ready supply of spare radios, so another technique would be to use a handheld. Crank the engine, and place the handheld's antenna near the EC2 wiring harness while transmitting. If the EC2 goes nuts, you probably have filtering issues in the EC2. The above isn't presented in a very orderly fashion; more a 'stream of consciousness' line of thought. When you begin troubleshooting, you need a specific plan of action, with steps written out and checked off as you make changes. It's very easy (I can testify) to get lost in the procedures, and forget what you've changed. Charlie electronics tech in a couple of other lives On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Jeff Whaley wrote: > Andrew, all a PTT is supposed to do is provide ground to the output stage > transistor of your radio, completing the circuit to enable transmit. > > Separate the EC2 from the radio power source =E2=80=93 at least temporari= ly. I > would recommend wiring your EC2 (+12V and GND) directly to a standby > battery =E2=80=93 see what happens. > > Have you got a second radio? =E2=80=93 Does the PTT have the same affect = when > connected to it?? > > Jeff > > > > *From:* Andrew Martin [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 26, 2016 5:56 AM > *Subject:* Engine miss > > > > I must have really upset Murphy, I just cannot seem to get a break with > this plane. > > > > I need help from an EE or anyone who gets a kick from lectrics. > > > > Since putting the engine back in the plane I have an issue whenever I pus= h > the PTT the engine runs like crap. Finger off PTT all good immediately. A= nd > this only happens on A computer, B seems unaffected on EC2, how can this > happen? > > > > A&B are tuned slightly different, B is still at pre engine rebuild state, > but I cannot see how that would be a factor. > > > > I just cannot see how the Radio transmission can affect one computer & no= t > the other, they are identical aren't they, in the same box connected to t= he > same wires. Is it possible I've damaged the EC2 sometime in the past and > just not noticed it, how would I check it now? > > > > Andrew > > > > -- > Regards > Andrew Martin > Martin Ag > This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the > addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any > unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our > internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. > --94eb2c064ac055983e0538898653 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd agree; that's a good 1st step for troubleshoot= ing.

1st goal is to determine whether the interference i= s getting in the EC2 through the power line, the ground line, or it's R= F energy entering the EC2 directly, through either the case or the many inp= ut/output wires of the EC2.=C2=A0

Someone posted t= hat Tracy had added filtering inside the EC2 at some point. I don't kno= w how he implemented the filtering, but if each controller has its own filt= ers, then one could be missing, or failed.

Don'= ;t forget what Bobby re-posted about radio problems:

"I believe I bucked my last rivet last nig= ht on the forward upper deck. The plane will be heading to the airport in a= couple weeks but will be making a detour to the paint shop on the way. You= will like this, when I=C2=A0completed the wiring I ran the engine one more= time to verify the newly completed system. To my amazement everything work= ed, even the interior lights, until I hit the PTT to see if I could pick an= ybody up. When I pushed the PTT the engine would almost quite and the EM2 w= ould start to scramble, even the FM radio on the garage wall would quite. A= fter a calls to the Gulf Coast Avionics techs is was soon apparent that the= y led me on a trouble shooting trip that led to nowhere. After a weeks vaca= tion from work and the plane I came home with a fresh mind and discovered a= direct short to ground from the coax center conductor to the radio case. A= bad radio right out of the box".

=C2=A0

=C2=A0It's pretty unlikely yo= u'd have exactly the same failure that Sam had in that post, but you ca= n have a similar issue *outside* the radio. Prep of the coax, or any of the= connectors, could result in either RF radiating off the shield (if the shi= eld is 'floating' at either end), or RF radiating directly into the= airframe, as described in the text above.


When troubleshooting, you usually want to change one th= ing at a time. But a variation in troubleshooting (when possible) is to spl= it the possible causes into big segments, and eliminate a segment from the = equation. In your case, you could power the EC2 from a separate source, as = Jeff mentioned. If so, remember that you likely have lots of grounded devic= es related to the EC2, still connected to the airframe (leaving a path for = interference). You could also borrow another radio *and antenna, with coax*= . Wire power & ground direct to the battery, and transmit with nothing = related to the original radio operational. If the problem disappears, you k= now the problem is probably in either your radio or your wiring. A quick ch= eck of antenna/coax is to substitute a known-good piece of coax and antenna= (antenna can be just hung out the door for this test).


I realize that setting up another radio m= ight be tough to do unless there's =C2=A0a ready supply of spare radios= , so another technique would be to use a handheld. Crank the engine, and pl= ace the handheld's antenna near the EC2 wiring harness while transmitti= ng. If the EC2 goes nuts, you probably have filtering issues in the EC2.


<= p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt">The a= bove isn't presented in a very orderly fashion; more a 'stream of= =C2=A0consciousness' line of thought.=C2=A0 When you begin troubleshoot= ing, you need a specific plan of action, with steps written out and checked= off as you=C2=A0make changes. It's very easy (I can testify) to get lo= st in the procedures, and forget what you've changed.

=


=

= Charlie

<= span style=3D"font-size:14.6667px">electronics tech in a couple of other li= ves


On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Jeff Whaley <f= lyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Andrew, all a PTT is supposed to do is provi= de ground to the output stage transistor of your radio, completing the circ= uit to enable transmit.

Separate the EC2 from the radio power source= =E2=80=93 at least temporarily. I would recommend wiring your EC2 (+12V an= d GND) directly to a standby battery =E2=80=93 see what happens.

Have you got a second radio? =E2=80=93 Does = the PTT have the same affect when connected to it??

Jeff

=C2=A0

From: Andrew Martin [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 5:56 AM
Subject: Engine miss

=C2=A0

I must have really upset Murphy,=C2=A0I just cannot = seem to get a break with this plane.

=C2=A0

I need help from an EE or anyone who gets a kick fro= m lectrics.

=C2=A0

Since putting the engine back in the plane I have an= issue whenever I push the PTT the engine runs like crap. Finger off PTT al= l good immediately. And this only happens on A computer, B seems unaffected= on EC2,=C2=A0how can this happen?

=C2=A0

A&B are tuned slightly=C2=A0different,=C2=A0B is= still at pre engine rebuild state, but I cannot see how that would be a fa= ctor.

=C2=A0

I just cannot see how the Radio transmission=C2=A0ca= n affect one computer & not the other, they are identical aren't=C2= =A0they, in the same box connected to the same wires. Is it possible I'= ve damaged the EC2 sometime in the past and just not noticed it,=C2=A0how would I check it now?=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Andrew



--
Regards
Andrew Martin
Martin Ag

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the origin= al message. Thank you.

--94eb2c064ac055983e0538898653--