X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Chad Peterson" Received: from mail-qk0-f170.google.com ([209.85.220.170] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.11) with ESMTPS id 8782842 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 20:59:01 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.170; envelope-from=capeterson7x@gmail.com Received: by mail-qk0-f170.google.com with SMTP id s126so19477173qkh.2 for ; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:59:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=mvFc8D4LIjbg2vzsRuV/pZltOJsfKkuhzAFNlPFm0OQ=; b=ndAX+OM997UjwIAAF7FAAHb9HpQVpWtpcG9BOcQQd4CiwCCPdgw1hB3HT3NYFLvYzg 9ThCzXkFXmzNU6kiM9bh0BAkDKlUAv1BZtfKp+XiTgAu5YgF+V98/Nh3cWSqE3gz+aou gr/nxuNw509iskzkv/8GlAudH77U2GY8nHbYy308yQDHXAM5a9Zmn7DyCiqM6RMGaLCv dE6MQJrbc7/bjqbblAnpok3mge61t3/694nUhSe4rI2X0z5vAtISTkDnqZgREY10vrK0 euP8MtXOabQ+R0t/RyBugKZpJ1uzNKa7Bl626RQeo97O3qyIGHrmRQYxCilSJoT5a249 PQtQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=mvFc8D4LIjbg2vzsRuV/pZltOJsfKkuhzAFNlPFm0OQ=; b=CPmmsyo3XZ9/D72ZogMbZ5JCCA1sqwXH4eQq2XiH3lisiOIofvU6B8UVds1R/q7pDo eBdUUIob+ObymiXne3K7bVRLob5Cu1UQeQ9GRVZJt5KDJ5gL804j6hacNeTjiadB10Bv InsCddbCWpLx8ABz+TFvuYpGFb4yV+S493327SZPwguRkzxkXEMUg//TdHr72lWkJhoY gf2bZsgM3GMBJBfdhEuZl5RpSDMwX1jPrqP+jflEGczIP2otHa8ZByDOu/jMorir6Cqc WiQOykB1vQbGLjdb5cA3wx35NApc2R02NkgeGtqqeCNHXDLYm5gqUTxb+jVk6XI6q55Y XW2A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKqnamrsODokJJ26QI0ipG8hkpKs5EC1EJQv4gjnJvb6NC3ZA82EbtU9uiJyX91dJoA46OcT677i2wGZQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.55.105.5 with SMTP id e5mr27477978qkc.192.1467766722210; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.233.222.4 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Jul 2016 17:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.233.222.4 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Jul 2016 17:58:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 19:58:41 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis: just the ignition system To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11487c441732c00536ed123d --001a11487c441732c00536ed123d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Exhaust will be stainless still and whole exhaust will be shielded from everything else under the cowling. Thanks for the epoxy resin tip! On Jul 5, 2016 7:55 PM, "William Jepson" wrote: > Make sure to use Epoxy, (not polyester resin), and plan on a good heat > shield around the exhaust. A small blast tube would be even better. > composite will work but remember it sits above 1600=C2=B0 Exhaust. Tracy = runs a > simple separator plate under his plywood box so it should be safe, but ta= ke > no frivolous chances. Fire in your engine compartment is very bad mojo. I > have seen one so I may be more sensitive than most. > Bill J. > > On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Chad Peterson > wrote: > >> Right now looking at what it would take to make a manifold out of S >> glass. Going to peripheral port the housing, and with a plugs up mountin= g, >> would be fairly simple matter of laying up some sock type fiberglass on = a >> quartered section of u bend tubing, bonding the flanges over either >> aluminum or phenolic with traditional mat. >> >> The leaning block is sold off of Paul Lamar's sight. >> >> S glass has great heat insulation properties and is structurally very >> strong. The raw materials are not expensive, so i can have a lightweight >> non heat transferring intake cheaper than I can buy anything on the >> aftermarket. >> On Jul 5, 2016 7:03 PM, "Charlie England" >> wrote: >> >>> Ah, yes; the Mcneily (sp?) leaning block. Sounds like a good plan. >>> >>> What does your manifold look like? >>> >>> Another option for ignition that has been discussed, is the Ford EDIS >>> setup, which, IIRC, can use Lynn's dual crank trigger setup. Should be = a >>> lot less expensive than MSD. >>> >>> There's also MegaJolt, if you want MP controlled advance. >>> >>> Charlie >>> >>> On 7/5/2016 6:37 PM, Chad Peterson wrote: >>> >>> There is a remote mixture adapter for the 500cfm Holley 2300 series 2 >>> barrel carb. >>> >>> Great deal on those magnetos though. >>> On Jul 5, 2016 6:33 PM, "Charlie England" >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey Chad, why not go totally aircraft quality? >>>> >>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Slick-Magneto-2220-2-cylinder-government-surpl= us-NEW-/261131236190?hash=3Ditem3ccca2735e:m:mCxhlxs4nXtIFbbchDrOH6Q >>>> >>>> ;-) >>>> >>>> Seriously, which carb do you plan to use? While you can get away >>>> without a lot of ignition advance with a rotary, you still need to lea= n it >>>> at altitude. Options are out there, but don't forget that you need to = have >>>> a plan to control mixture. >>>> >>>> Charlie >>>> >>>> On 7/5/2016 1:37 PM, Chad Peterson wrote: >>>> >>>> Might be interested. Was looking at ignition modules and the Pertronix >>>> looks like the only one which actually carries multiple sparks past >>>> 3000RPM. Also has crank angle offset setting which allows you to adjus= t >>>> when the following sparks fire, would be good for a rotary due to the >>>> longer burn time. Only allows to be set up in 4,6, or 8 cylinder mode >>>> though so not sure how tach output will read. >>>> >>>> They don't offer siamesed coils though, so at minimum i would be >>>> interested in those, and curious about other ignition parts available. >>>> >>>> Chad. >>>> On Jul 5, 2016 1:25 PM, "Bobby J. Hughes" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Chad, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If you haven=E2=80=99t purchased the MSD coils I may have some availab= le. Mark >>>> Steitle did some experimenting with a similar setup and has a box of M= SD >>>> parts in his hanger. Not sure exactly what=E2=80=99s in the box but pa= rts were used >>>> for a few ground runs. Next trip to the hanger I=E2=80=99ll do an inve= ntory and >>>> take a picture. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bobby Hughes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto: >>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:02 AM >>>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis: just the ignition system >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Interesting, >>>> >>>> Do you have pictures of this system? >>>> >>>> I haven't heard of firing both plugs per housing at the same time (mos= t >>>> fire the trailing plugs independently and the leading plugs simultaneo= usly >>>> with a waste spark cycle). This sounds pretty good, considering only >>>> needing 2 modules instead of 3. >>>> >>>> On Jul 4, 2016 11:45 PM, "Lehanover" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> One thick aluminum disc mounted on the front pulley. One iron reluctor >>>> mounted in the edge of the disc. A length of 1/4" bolt works fine. Mak= e the >>>> disc the same diameter as a Mr. Gasket degree wheel. Mount the degree = wheel >>>> on the front of the disc. Makes setting timing dead easy. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Two pickups mounted 180 degrees apart to be tripped by the reluctor. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> One pickup fires an MSD or similar so as to light off a double ended >>>> coil (MSD has these) or two Blaster coils in parallel if you need the = extra >>>> weight. To fire leading and trailing plugs in housing one together. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The second pickup fires housing two. Keep plug wires as short as is >>>> possible. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Adjust reluctor disc so as to fire plugs at 20 to 26 degrees BTDC. Goo= d >>>> from idle to 10,000 RPM and 250 HP. Used on racing engines for years. = Use >>>> NGK 11.5 heat range plugs gapped at .010". >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Non turbo engines only. Ignition timing is so accurate that the engine >>>> appears to be not running when a timing light is used. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lynn E. Hanover >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 7/4/2016 10:42:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: >>>> >>>> Tracy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm wanting to use a carbureted Renesis for my build. Eliminating both >>>> the fuel injection system and the emissions system, I have no need to = keep >>>> the stock ECM. What would be the easiest ignition system to use? I'm >>>> thinking a hall effect crank angle sensor feeding an MSD 6A/Crane Fire= ball >>>> Hi6/similar low cost unit and three coils: one for each trailing plug = and >>>> one for both leading plugs (leading plugs fire a waste spark similar t= o the >>>> 2nd and 3rd generation RX7s). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Would this be a matter of simply installing a universal aftermarket >>>> crank trigger kit and having the sensors trigger an ignition module? W= ould >>>> I need one or three ignition modules to achieve this? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Many thanks, >>>> >>>> Chad. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> > --001a11487c441732c00536ed123d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Exhaust will be stainless still and whole exhaust will be sh= ielded from everything else under the cowling.

Thanks for the epoxy resin tip!

On Jul 5, 2016 7:55 PM, "William Jepson&quo= t; <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net> wrote:
Make sure to use Epoxy, (not polyester resin), and plan = on a good heat shield around the exhaust. A small blast tube would be even = better. composite will work but remember it sits above 1600=C2=B0 Exhaust. = Tracy runs a simple separator plate under his plywood box so it should be s= afe, but take no frivolous chances. Fire in your engine compartment is very= bad mojo. I have seen one so I may be more sensitive than most.
Bill J= . =C2=A0

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Chad Peterson <flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net> wrote:

Right now looking at what it would take to make a manifold out of= S glass. Going to peripheral port the housing, and with a plugs up mountin= g, would be fairly simple matter of laying up some sock type fiberglass on = a quartered section of u bend tubing, bonding the flanges over either alumi= num or phenolic with traditional mat.

The leaning block is sold off of Paul Lamar's sight.

S glass has great heat insulation properties and is structur= ally very strong. The raw materials are not expensive, so i can have a ligh= tweight non heat transferring intake cheaper than I can buy anything on the= aftermarket.

On Jul 5, 2016 7:03 PM, "Charlie England&qu= ot; <fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Ah, yes; the Mcneily (sp?) leaning block. Sounds like a good plan.

What does your manifold look like?

Another option for ignition that has been discussed, is the Ford EDIS setup, which, IIRC, can use Lynn's dual crank trigger setup. Should be a lot less expensive than MSD.

There's also MegaJolt, if you want MP controlled advance.

Charlie

On 7/5/2016 6:37 PM, Chad Peterson wrote:

There is a remote mixture adapter for the 500cfm Holley 2300 series 2 barrel carb.

Great deal on those magnetos though.

On Jul 5, 2016 6:33 PM, "Charlie Engl= and" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hey Chad, why not go totally aircraft quality?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Slick-Magneto-2220= -2-cylinder-government-surplus-NEW-/261131236190?hash=3Ditem3ccca2735e:m:mC= xhlxs4nXtIFbbchDrOH6Q

;-)

Seriously, which carb do you plan to use? While you can get away without a lot of ignition advance with a rotary, you still need to lean it at altitude. Options are out there, but don't forget that you need to have a plan to control mixture.

Charlie

On 7/5/2016 1:37 PM, Chad Peterson wrote:

Might be interested. Was looking at ignition modules and the Pertronix looks like the only one which actually carries multiple sparks past 3000RPM. Also has crank angle offset setting which allows you to adjust when the following sparks fire, would be good for a rotary due to the longer burn time. Only allows to be set up in 4,6, or 8 cylinder mode though so not sure how tach output will read.

They don't offer siamesed coils though, so= at minimum i would be interested in those, and curious about other ignition parts available.

Chad.

On Jul 5, 2016 1:25 PM, "Bobb= y J. Hughes" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Cha= d,

=C2= =A0

If you haven=E2=80=99t purchased the MSD coils I may= have some available. Mark Steitle did some experimenting with a similar setup and has a box of MSD parts in his hanger. Not sure exactly what=E2=80=99s in the box but parts were = used for a few ground runs. Next trip to the hanger I=E2=80=99ll do an inventory and take a picture. =

=C2= =A0

Bob= by Hughes

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ]
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:02 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis: just the ignition system

=C2=A0

Interesting,

Do you have pictures of this system?

I haven't heard of firing both plugs per housing at the same time (most fire the trailing plugs independently and the leading plugs simultaneously with a waste spark cycle). This sounds pretty good, considering only needing 2 modules instead of 3.

On Jul 4, 2016 11:45 PM, "Lehanover" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= > wrote:

One thick aluminum disc mounted on the front pulley. One iron reluctor mounted in the edge of the disc. A length of 1/4" bolt works fine. Make the disc the same diameter as a Mr. Gasket degree wheel. Mount the degree wheel on the front of the disc. Makes setting timing dead easy.

=C2=A0

Two pickups mounted 180 degrees apart to be tripped by the reluctor.

=C2=A0

One pickup fires an MSD or similar so as to light off a double ended coil (MSD has these) or two Blaster coils in parallel if you need the extra weight. To fire leading and trailing plugs in housing one together.

=C2=A0

The second pickup fires housing two. Keep plug wires as short as is possible.

=C2=A0

Adjust reluctor disc so as to fire plugs at 20 to 26 degrees BTDC. Good from idle to 10,000 RPM and 250 HP. Used on racing engines for years. Use NGK 11.5 heat range plugs gapped at .010".=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Non turbo engines only. Ignition timing is so accurate that the engine appears to be not running when a timing light is used.

=C2=A0

Lynn E. Hanover

=C2=A0

In a message dated 7/4/2016 10:42:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net= writes:

Tracy

=C2=A0

I'm wanting to use a carbureted Renesis for my build. Eliminating both the fuel injection system and the emissions system, I have no need to keep the stock ECM. What would be the easiest ignition system to use? I'm thinking a hall effect crank angle sensor feeding an MSD 6A/Crane Fireball Hi6/similar low cost unit and three coils: one for each trailing plug and one for both leading plugs (leading plugs fire a waste spark similar to the 2nd and 3rd generation RX7s).

=C2=A0

Would this be a matter of simply installing a universal aftermarket crank trigger kit and having the sensors trigger an ignition module? Would I need one or three ignition modules to achieve this?

=C2=A0

Many thanks,

Chad.=C2=A0




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