X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Chad Peterson" Received: from mail-qk0-f173.google.com ([209.85.220.173] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.11) with ESMTPS id 8782749 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 20:15:52 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.173; envelope-from=capeterson7x@gmail.com Received: by mail-qk0-f173.google.com with SMTP id t127so302876079qkf.1 for ; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:15:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=8azVy872zK7wsTslwe6ONkVJ3NI/0uoVlRH/qZIdaGE=; b=kOazEs58vq2RUyTgczCScQKAjo8IDl4/oofIRUX07RV6dsAUF80eVbTYwdKseZIKCI IZC1H7DUB3S4i0IcptN7R/JUFYEux4wWc7M3mqZETyz4Pfl2rz4ar/p2/uCNBZrvy0WK THEUbyingYqBWtAqpnUhdc85HbiuoXOZKLV010jD+Pc3qNI0oeZpUo1+PkAre+V5JhZx uFyLVMtdP/wLP6t5+3y+8YXtbD4ZUiObU11RB9Ry3tPErAfeikgVHRAZD2mPj1Rgt+CF uRZgPKJDiBdIyoEoOW9+XjPvy2OpjHmugEUesyixJysZpelACB7ZfuaJivEockijI/tG yU8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=8azVy872zK7wsTslwe6ONkVJ3NI/0uoVlRH/qZIdaGE=; b=GQpIqYEpAd2md+biY4qp33+uX9ok65G4vMIyqvrnCECKcrKmv0Leoa3rRnk6mGyv2y JrlwD5zddYnzjZMNWa2qvWJSJqbQx7cN4hyH7V3ZRB2sdi0EFBdz48X+53c1+boIUOjs 6yQwKlPQLDSR2SYDqGJUktFFQUts8r9t52iFOB0lzm+mof8lXdmi1BlBg/djRrS+RptD 99nHJVmIEoTQYrDEfUpg2AciGq4dpBQA0Jzb7pS70bWZltKgYRZgWs2xoBBVH50atUog 5dSsvhpDeBUyiOlhAJ3QsgXwDYJCxUtp2eEhlLRufioUOkZ8g1yOLpy5A5NyZLrGj7YC KtSA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJBMvSeWBnSqmGHBl7yZvuDwTun+dcu8vCAYL9TzFVwnDbdr02tqsYrgFTglUxULyRlEpePgBdo03CeNA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.55.65.71 with SMTP id o68mr26065568qka.163.1467764134099; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:15:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.233.222.4 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Jul 2016 17:15:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.233.222.4 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Jul 2016 17:15:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 19:15:33 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis: just the ignition system To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114abcb6d3c0d80536ec7765 --001a114abcb6d3c0d80536ec7765 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Right now looking at what it would take to make a manifold out of S glass. Going to peripheral port the housing, and with a plugs up mounting, would be fairly simple matter of laying up some sock type fiberglass on a quartered section of u bend tubing, bonding the flanges over either aluminum or phenolic with traditional mat. The leaning block is sold off of Paul Lamar's sight. S glass has great heat insulation properties and is structurally very strong. The raw materials are not expensive, so i can have a lightweight non heat transferring intake cheaper than I can buy anything on the aftermarket. On Jul 5, 2016 7:03 PM, "Charlie England" wrote: > Ah, yes; the Mcneily (sp?) leaning block. Sounds like a good plan. > > What does your manifold look like? > > Another option for ignition that has been discussed, is the Ford EDIS > setup, which, IIRC, can use Lynn's dual crank trigger setup. Should be a > lot less expensive than MSD. > > There's also MegaJolt, if you want MP controlled advance. > > Charlie > > On 7/5/2016 6:37 PM, Chad Peterson wrote: > > There is a remote mixture adapter for the 500cfm Holley 2300 series 2 > barrel carb. > > Great deal on those magnetos though. > On Jul 5, 2016 6:33 PM, "Charlie England" > wrote: > >> Hey Chad, why not go totally aircraft quality? >> >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Slick-Magneto-2220-2-cylinder-government-surplus= -NEW-/261131236190?hash=3Ditem3ccca2735e:m:mCxhlxs4nXtIFbbchDrOH6Q >> >> ;-) >> >> Seriously, which carb do you plan to use? While you can get away without >> a lot of ignition advance with a rotary, you still need to lean it at >> altitude. Options are out there, but don't forget that you need to have = a >> plan to control mixture. >> >> Charlie >> >> On 7/5/2016 1:37 PM, Chad Peterson wrote: >> >> Might be interested. Was looking at ignition modules and the Pertronix >> looks like the only one which actually carries multiple sparks past >> 3000RPM. Also has crank angle offset setting which allows you to adjust >> when the following sparks fire, would be good for a rotary due to the >> longer burn time. Only allows to be set up in 4,6, or 8 cylinder mode >> though so not sure how tach output will read. >> >> They don't offer siamesed coils though, so at minimum i would be >> interested in those, and curious about other ignition parts available. >> >> Chad. >> On Jul 5, 2016 1:25 PM, "Bobby J. Hughes" >> wrote: >> >> Chad, >> >> >> >> If you haven=E2=80=99t purchased the MSD coils I may have some available= . Mark >> Steitle did some experimenting with a similar setup and has a box of MSD >> parts in his hanger. Not sure exactly what=E2=80=99s in the box but part= s were used >> for a few ground runs. Next trip to the hanger I=E2=80=99ll do an invent= ory and >> take a picture. >> >> >> >> Bobby Hughes >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:02 AM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis: just the ignition system >> >> >> >> Interesting, >> >> Do you have pictures of this system? >> >> I haven't heard of firing both plugs per housing at the same time (most >> fire the trailing plugs independently and the leading plugs simultaneous= ly >> with a waste spark cycle). This sounds pretty good, considering only >> needing 2 modules instead of 3. >> >> On Jul 4, 2016 11:45 PM, "Lehanover" wrote= : >> >> One thick aluminum disc mounted on the front pulley. One iron reluctor >> mounted in the edge of the disc. A length of 1/4" bolt works fine. Make = the >> disc the same diameter as a Mr. Gasket degree wheel. Mount the degree wh= eel >> on the front of the disc. Makes setting timing dead easy. >> >> >> >> Two pickups mounted 180 degrees apart to be tripped by the reluctor. >> >> >> >> One pickup fires an MSD or similar so as to light off a double ended coi= l >> (MSD has these) or two Blaster coils in parallel if you need the extra >> weight. To fire leading and trailing plugs in housing one together. >> >> >> >> The second pickup fires housing two. Keep plug wires as short as is >> possible. >> >> >> >> Adjust reluctor disc so as to fire plugs at 20 to 26 degrees BTDC. Good >> from idle to 10,000 RPM and 250 HP. Used on racing engines for years. Us= e >> NGK 11.5 heat range plugs gapped at .010". >> >> >> >> Non turbo engines only. Ignition timing is so accurate that the engine >> appears to be not running when a timing light is used. >> >> >> >> Lynn E. Hanover >> >> >> >> In a message dated 7/4/2016 10:42:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: >> >> Tracy >> >> >> >> I'm wanting to use a carbureted Renesis for my build. Eliminating both >> the fuel injection system and the emissions system, I have no need to ke= ep >> the stock ECM. What would be the easiest ignition system to use? I'm >> thinking a hall effect crank angle sensor feeding an MSD 6A/Crane Fireba= ll >> Hi6/similar low cost unit and three coils: one for each trailing plug an= d >> one for both leading plugs (leading plugs fire a waste spark similar to = the >> 2nd and 3rd generation RX7s). >> >> >> >> Would this be a matter of simply installing a universal aftermarket cran= k >> trigger kit and having the sensors trigger an ignition module? Would I n= eed >> one or three ignition modules to achieve this? >> >> >> >> Many thanks, >> >> Chad. >> >> >> > --001a114abcb6d3c0d80536ec7765 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Right now looking at what it would take to make a manifold o= ut of S glass. Going to peripheral port the housing, and with a plugs up mo= unting, would be fairly simple matter of laying up some sock type fiberglas= s on a quartered section of u bend tubing, bonding the flanges over either = aluminum or phenolic with traditional mat.

The leaning block is sold off of Paul Lamar's sight.

S glass has great heat insulation properties and is structur= ally very strong. The raw materials are not expensive, so i can have a ligh= tweight non heat transferring intake cheaper than I can buy anything on the= aftermarket.

On Jul 5, 2016 7:03 PM, "Charlie England&qu= ot; <flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Ah, yes; the Mcneily (sp?) leaning block. Sounds like a good plan.

What does your manifold look like?

Another option for ignition that has been discussed, is the Ford EDIS setup, which, IIRC, can use Lynn's dual crank trigger setup. Should be a lot less expensive than MSD.

There's also MegaJolt, if you want MP controlled advance.

Charlie

On 7/5/2016 6:37 PM, Chad Peterson wrote:

There is a remote mixture adapter for the 500cfm Holley 2300 series 2 barrel carb.

Great deal on those magnetos though.

On Jul 5, 2016 6:33 PM, "Charlie Engl= and" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hey Chad, why not go totally aircraft quality?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Slick-Magneto-2220= -2-cylinder-government-surplus-NEW-/261131236190?hash=3Ditem3ccca2735e:m:mC= xhlxs4nXtIFbbchDrOH6Q

;-)

Seriously, which carb do you plan to use? While you can get away without a lot of ignition advance with a rotary, you still need to lean it at altitude. Options are out there, but don't forget that you need to have a plan to control mixture.

Charlie

On 7/5/2016 1:37 PM, Chad Peterson wrote:

Might be interested. Was looking at ignition modules and the Pertronix looks like the only one which actually carries multiple sparks past 3000RPM. Also has crank angle offset setting which allows you to adjust when the following sparks fire, would be good for a rotary due to the longer burn time. Only allows to be set up in 4,6, or 8 cylinder mode though so not sure how tach output will read.

They don't offer siamesed coils though, so= at minimum i would be interested in those, and curious about other ignition parts available.

Chad.

On Jul 5, 2016 1:25 PM, "Bobb= y J. Hughes" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Cha= d,

=C2= =A0

If you haven=E2=80=99t purchased the MSD coils I may= have some available. Mark Steitle did some experimenting with a similar setup and has a box of MSD parts in his hanger. Not sure exactly what=E2=80=99s in the box but parts were = used for a few ground runs. Next trip to the hanger I=E2=80=99ll do an inventory and take a picture. =

=C2= =A0

Bob= by Hughes

=C2= =A0

=C2= =A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ]
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 12:02 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis: just the ignition system

=C2=A0

Interesting,

Do you have pictures of this system?

I haven't heard of firing both plugs per housing at the same time (most fire the trailing plugs independently and the leading plugs simultaneously with a waste spark cycle). This sounds pretty good, considering only needing 2 modules instead of 3.

On Jul 4, 2016 11:45 PM, "Lehanover" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= > wrote:

One thick aluminum disc mounted on the front pulley. One iron reluctor mounted in the edge of the disc. A length of 1/4" bolt works fine. Make the disc the same diameter as a Mr. Gasket degree wheel. Mount the degree wheel on the front of the disc. Makes setting timing dead easy.

=C2=A0

Two pickups mounted 180 degrees apart to be tripped by the reluctor.

=C2=A0

One pickup fires an MSD or similar so as to light off a double ended coil (MSD has these) or two Blaster coils in parallel if you need the extra weight. To fire leading and trailing plugs in housing one together.

=C2=A0

The second pickup fires housing two. Keep plug wires as short as is possible.

=C2=A0

Adjust reluctor disc so as to fire plugs at 20 to 26 degrees BTDC. Good from idle to 10,000 RPM and 250 HP. Used on racing engines for years. Use NGK 11.5 heat range plugs gapped at .010".=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Non turbo engines only. Ignition timing is so accurate that the engine appears to be not running when a timing light is used.

=C2=A0

Lynn E. Hanover

=C2=A0

In a message dated 7/4/2016 10:42:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net= writes:

Tracy

=C2=A0

I'm wanting to use a carbureted Renesis for my build. Eliminating both the fuel injection system and the emissions system, I have no need to keep the stock ECM. What would be the easiest ignition system to use? I'm thinking a hall effect crank angle sensor feeding an MSD 6A/Crane Fireball Hi6/similar low cost unit and three coils: one for each trailing plug and one for both leading plugs (leading plugs fire a waste spark similar to the 2nd and 3rd generation RX7s).

=C2=A0

Would this be a matter of simply installing a universal aftermarket crank trigger kit and having the sensors trigger an ignition module? Would I need one or three ignition modules to achieve this?

=C2=A0

Many thanks,

Chad.=C2=A0



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