X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "James R. Osborn" Received: from mail-pa0-f51.google.com ([209.85.220.51] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.8) with ESMTPS id 8365903 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 13:56:31 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.51; envelope-from=rxcited@gmail.com Received: by mail-pa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id ho8so45515759pac.2 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:56:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to; bh=VBTIbZ9FA3BicyYZ3p+qJTbC9N5xmOSfq6B6Himz3v4=; b=fAFfoqWetUgi+2yczQXZbv3zRqvBxCroDZFeilQRO2f9S4aEHNX+ZYUAlS+uYPHhX5 CP05lg24sRsj9OHK/957G+Nec3UQvTcdiscmqNWV7PCo7Hbn0EBiYkxnFoeAXIi6MVdO Paz7Qpma8C8Uy6rCssewBGhvLJH+s9JugTCUaq02QJ+Mkva4gJtvNj9Hb+B0Ya42h1xc DAAoO8Wv41BHndmA0U2blOZszGFPxHp6blOSKQZw+q+JidUBUeKUp6pGIStDFJajFNGY HPPg8N49aj0hZ6qO9i6IifQzMZhJ52U27XPn7f7EV0nLD/ID7N1+/4IiQyHZ9JC2XRpf zJhg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-type:message-id:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to; bh=VBTIbZ9FA3BicyYZ3p+qJTbC9N5xmOSfq6B6Himz3v4=; b=fSpfLukrFhEczQsbkO2/NiFN/82B+VHiH/FHvLrvfqwO6FP1W8h63WutukFFzA5HYD xzco6mDgmf+wZ387HJs1CHLHTt7MvL8J8EVgLB1X6FR7fLs5YWHhiKW538ZwaniSSyHT 008+AxoG4E/57se+zmKEo+fri4coD+hhhzqPpRYTG7HcrumfPuyLDT7m9vQD7OWsyvfw c7pm0Cp9xAb7yFu1FfotyXdGubwq8Z5m8hz+NHoV6nYLRPjLUWkctY0IvWJiVTQZdzwz 3KCctOmPRZfLEN0a1tD1HPWGl3Xby4Yzu2IJhPDoDqay9R2N+11IKKy8xKGHHJdGSxd5 ld6w== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQzkU1oX1SdtFyOwJTioEt3bUesd3WnSjGqb0EWegtJ4CBKPckju/j+P+X6TlyKwg== X-Received: by 10.66.120.77 with SMTP id la13mr15816486pab.74.1454093772955; Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:2620:83:8001:24::1:1c35? ([2620:83:8001:24::1:1c35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ux2sm25169275pac.46.2016.01.29.10.56.11 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:56:12 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E0FC26AA-AA07-4283-8E9B-077994CB2A97" Message-Id: <9BAA5E5D-7108-4D60-B25A-EAF033CB9921@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.2 \(3112\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening? Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:56:11 -0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3112) --Apple-Mail=_E0FC26AA-AA07-4283-8E9B-077994CB2A97 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 What was the purpose of the eyebrows anyway? Was Mazda simply concerned = that stupid owners would install something other than their specially = specified variant from NGK? > On Jan 29, 2016, at 10:43 AM, Charlie England = wrote: >=20 > $45-$83 for spark plug wrench? Yagottabekidding. >=20 > Try finding a well-stocked bargain bin at your local auto parts store. = A lot of cheap plug wrenches are stamped sheet metal instead of being = thick cast material. >=20 > Also try accessory tool kits that come with weed eaters, chain saws, = etc. Again, stamped sheet metal plug wrenches. >=20 > Or do what I read about somewhere: install a junk plug & take a die = grinder to the aluminum eyebrows over the plug holes. (I hope my engine = doesn't self destruct because it's missing its eyebrows...) >=20 > Charlie >=20 > On 1/29/2016 12:10 PM, James Osborn wrote: >> There are many thin walled sockets commercially available for this = purpose. >>=20 >> http://atkinsrotary.com/store/Thin-Wall-Spark-Plug-Socket-ARE905.html = >> http://www.racingbeat.com/RX8/Ignition/11529.html = >> http://mazdatrix.com/getprice.asp?partnum=3D49-11529 = >>=20 >> Pricey, but the Atkins one isn't too bad. >>=20 >> On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 7:16 AM, Bill Bradburry = > = wrote: >> Steve, >>=20 >> =20 >> Bobby Hughes suggested that I only test the disable switches at 3000 = rpm or above. So yesterday I tried that. The secondary acted the same, = slightly richer. The primary caused the engine to cough and choke up a = couple of hairballs, go really lean, then come back and run slightly = richer just like the secondary. They both came to a mixture of = 11.6-11.7 after the disable. >>=20 >> =20 >> This works the same on both A and B controllers. I think this means = that the EC-2 is working, although it is taking a while to get the = decision made to turn on the secondary after it realizes that I have = turned the primary off. This time delay was causing the engine to stop = when I ran the test at idle. The way it acts might be a little = disconcerting to a passenger if I tell them I am checking to make sure = the engine runs ok=E2=80=A6.:>) >>=20 >> =20 >> On another note, I took your advice and bought and installed the = BR10EIX plugs yesterday after the test. I found an old plug wrench and = ground it down in order to get them installed. Naturally the wrench was = so thin that it cracked on the install. I doubt that it will hold up to = do a change. I plan to get a wrench and have someone turn it down to = fit. >>=20 >> =20 >> I assume that you have already done this. What dimension did you = turn the socket to? It seems that the opening in the block is one inch = but the wrench would need some clearance? I am way too tight to buy = that wrench from Racing Beat for $82 + shipping! :>) >>=20 >> =20 >> =20 >> Bill >>=20 >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net = ]=20 >> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:36 PM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be = happening? >>=20 >> =20 >> Bill, >>=20 >> =20 >> Today I spent some time in my plane trying all the permutations and = combinations of applying power to the primary injectors, secondary = injectors, and grounding EC2 pin 30 with the cold switch. >>=20 >> =20 >> It turns out that my statement in the message below concerning the = effect of grounding EC2 pin 30 when cutting power to the secondary = injectors when the MAP is below the staging threshold MAP was not = correct. When I did this today, the mixture went slightly richer just = like you describe for your system. >>=20 >> =20 >> As a result, my guess is that this behavior is most likely not an = indication of a problem to be solved. >>=20 >> =20 >> Steve Boese >>=20 >> From: Steven W. Boese >> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 12:23 PM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think = may be happening? >>=20 >> =20 >> Bill, >>=20 >> =20 >> Turning on the cold start switch is intended to give you a much = richer mixture when both the primary and secondary injectors are = enabled. So your system is working correctly in this regard. >>=20 >> =20 >> Disabling the secondary injectors with the DPDT switch is intended to = both cut the power to the secondary injectors and enable the cold start = function (as if the cold switch was turned on). This should have no = effect on the engine at MAP below the staging threshold since the engine = would be running on only the primary injectors just like it was before = flipping the secondary disable switch.=20 >>=20 >> Your previous statement: >>=20 >> "With the engine idling at about 1400 rpm, and the mixture at about = 14.7, I turned off the secondary and the engine ran a little differently = and the mixture went to about 13.0." >>=20 >> is troubling since doing this should have had no effect whatsoever. = Is the mixture change persistent and reproducible? If the mixture = eventually (within a few seconds) returns to the original value, then = your system is most likely working correctly in this regard too. >>=20 >> =20 >> Steve Boese >>=20 >>> =20 >>=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_E0FC26AA-AA07-4283-8E9B-077994CB2A97 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 What was the purpose of the eyebrows anyway?  Was Mazda = simply concerned that stupid owners would install something other than = their specially specified variant from NGK?

=

On Jan 29, 2016, at 10:43 AM, Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=20 =20
$45-$83 for spark plug wrench? Yagottabekidding.

Try finding a well-stocked bargain bin at your local auto parts store. A lot of cheap plug wrenches are stamped sheet metal instead of being thick cast material.

Also try accessory tool kits that come with weed eaters, chain saws, etc. Again, stamped sheet metal plug wrenches.

Or do what I read about somewhere: install a junk plug & take a die grinder to the aluminum eyebrows over the plug holes. (I hope my engine doesn't self destruct because it's missing its eyebrows...)

Charlie

On 1/29/2016 12:10 PM, James Osborn wrote:
There are many thin walled sockets commercially = available for this purpose.

http://atkinsrotary.com/store/Thin-Wall-Spark-Plug-Socket-ARE90= 5.html
http://www.racingbeat.com/RX8/Ignition/11529.html
http://mazdatrix.com/getprice.asp?partnum=3D49-11529

Pricey, but the Atkins one isn't too bad.

On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 7:16 AM, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
=

Steve,

 

Bobby Hughes suggested that I only test the disable switches at 3000 rpm or above.  = So yesterday I tried that.  The secondary acted the same, slightly richer.  The primary caused the engine to cough and choke up a couple of hairballs, go really lean, then come back and run slightly richer just like the secondary.  They both came to a mixture of 11.6-11.7 after the = disable.

 

This works the same on both A and B controllers.  I think this means that the = EC-2 is working, although it is taking a while to get the decision made to turn on the secondary after it realizes that I have turned the primary off.  = This time delay was causing the engine to stop when I ran the test at = idle.  The way it acts might be a little disconcerting to a passenger if I tell them I am checking to make sure the engine runs ok=E2=80=A6.:>)

=
 

On another note, I took your advice and bought and installed the BR10EIX plugs yesterday after the test.  I found an old plug wrench and ground it down in order to get them installed.  Naturally the wrench was so thin that it cracked on the install.  I doubt that it will hold up to do a change.  I plan to get a wrench and have someone turn it down to fit.

 

I assume that you have already done this.  What dimension did you turn the socket = to?  It seems that the opening in the block is one inch but the wrench would need some clearance?  I am way too tight to buy that = wrench from Racing Beat for $82 + shipping!   = :>)

 
 

Bill

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:36 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening?

 

Bill,

 

Today I spent some time in my plane trying all the permutations and combinations of applying power to the primary injectors, secondary injectors, and grounding EC2 pin 30 with the cold switch.

 

It turns out that my statement in the message below concerning the effect of grounding EC2 pin 30 when cutting power to the secondary injectors when the MAP is below the staging threshold MAP was not correct.  When I = did this today, the mixture went slightly richer just like you describe for your system.

 

As a result, my guess is that this behavior is most likely not = an indication of a problem to be solved.

 

Steve Boese

From: Steven W. Boese
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 12:23 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening?

 

Bill,

 

Turning on the cold start switch is intended = to give you a much richer mixture when both the primary and secondary injectors are enabled.  So your system is working correctly in this = regard.

 

Disabling the secondary injectors with the DPDT switch is intended to both cut = the power to the secondary injectors and enable the cold start function (as if the cold switch was turned on).  This = should have no effect on the engine at MAP below the staging threshold since the engine would be running on only the primary injectors just like it was before flipping the secondary disable switch. 

Your previous statement:

"With the engine idling at about 1400 rpm, and the mixture at about 14.7, I turned off the secondary and the engine ran a little differently and the mixture went to about 13.0."

is troubling since doing this should have had no effect whatsoever.  Is the mixture change persistent and = reproducible?  If the mixture eventually (within a few seconds) returns to the original value, then your system is most likely working correctly in this regard too.

 

Steve Boese

 



= --Apple-Mail=_E0FC26AA-AA07-4283-8E9B-077994CB2A97--