X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-d08.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.207] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6600050 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 17:29:38 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.109.207; envelope-from=ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.72]) by omr-d08.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id A4DF7700000B5 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 17:29:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-dsc003b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dsc003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.253.73]) by mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 63121E000081 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 17:29:02 -0500 (EST) From: ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Full-name: ARGOLDMAN Message-ID: <37c1e.16a94848.3fb6a8ae@aol.com> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 17:29:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Digest Activity To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_37c1e.16a94848.3fb6a8ae_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 56 X-Originating-IP: [67.184.240.46] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1384468142; bh=NZ6tAI3D/EZWR9BibSTD6h/S9ofj+/ALyl/0ku+MQTU=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=fv81VHXKUnCeOwjwJFLIRjaFrVuRd9gRoLf3hc1yWXhMXgXGYqkM93136SgvKEA7s gS/e0mDPz/UM6kDmKcAn2GnYBKwMHFAWQdv2IixVgClcdA6CB5JV1rHTGzD1ycUcWB hnJ5mJRIZAA+0VIOreMbKMyFJWMIznIvPMcuB4bw= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d294852854eae3a18 --part1_37c1e.16a94848.3fb6a8ae_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en B2, =20 I suggest that you reconsider setting the prop as suggested. Perhaps Mark = =20 is used to flying fixed props and wants to operate his controllable prop=20 like one of those. this defeats one of the greatest benefits of the C/S p= rop. =20 When you go to fine pitch, your choice of when, certainly not in your =20 initial decent, (I do it on final,) enrich your mixture to T.O setting and when you flatten the prop to T.O., = =20 it acts like a wonderful speed brake, enabling you to do a steeper approac= h. =20 The other effect is that if and when you have to do a go-around, the prop = =20 is already set at T.O pitch, and all you have to worry about is advancing= =20 the throttle for max climb. =20 Perhaps I missed the beginning of this string, but it is beyond my =20 comprehension why anybody would spend the extra bucks on a prop that gives= you=20 better T.O and climb, while sacrificing possibly some top end speed, and n= ot=20 use it to it's maximum capability, especially in the light of a go-around= =20 and landings. Perhaps some dual with an instructor who flies complex aircr= aft=20 will help. =20 I don't think that you will ever find a pilot of a store bought craft with = =20 a c/s prop that would think of landing with any setting other than t.o.=20 fine. Remember GUMPS The M stands for Mixture (rich) the P stands for Prop= =20 (T.O. fine pitch). With quadrant throttles, full forward on mixture and pr= op=20 or mixtures and props. With vernier, mixture in then prop in. If your=20 governor is set correctly and you don't ram the controls in or operate the= prop=20 control too quickly, you will find it a great thing to use. =20 If you do not have a C/S governor, as part of your initial setup, you will = =20 have created a fine pitch stop and use your pitch switch to get it there = =20 and the blade flattening will stop appropriately. =20 Maximize the use of your equipment--- you paid for it. =20 Rich =20 =20 In a message dated 11/14/2013 3:46:01 P.M. Central Standard Time, =20 bbradburry@bellsouth.net writes: =20 Mark,=20 I tried setting the prop for a more coarse setting prior to landing like= =20 you describe. I probably come in too fast, but with the prop set like tha= t,=20 I floated in ground effect almost the length of the runway, then when I=20 added power to go around, I didn=E2=80=99t have much climb power. I tried= it a few=20 times and it was similar each time. I could probably learn to land that= =20 way, but I gave it up and went back to the brake effect you get with a fla= t=20 prop when you cut the power.=20 I will try the learning method you describe to see if that fixes the surge= =20 problem.=20 You haven=E2=80=99t reported on how your plane is doing with the new panel= ???=20 B2=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = =20 Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 2:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Digest Activity =20 =20 =20 =20 Bill, =20 I also have an M/T electric prop. I discovered a long time ago that my=20 landings are more predictable if I switch the prop over to manual mode pri= or=20 to entering the pattern. I typically level off about 3-5 miles out, chang= e=20 the prop rpm to 2100, wait for it to re-adjust itself, then switch to=20 manual mode. This makes the prop behave like a fixed-pitch, and from this= =20 point to touchdown I fly it like a fixed-pitch prop. =20 Regarding your surging issue, Tracy suggested to me to simulate a=20 landing, but at a safe altitude. Set up as if you were in the pattern pre= paring=20 to land, and then put the EM-2 into auto-tune mode. Let the EM-2 tune the= =20 settings which are impossible to tune on the ground. Worked for me. Thanks, Mark =20 =20 On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Bill Bradburry =20 <_bbradburry@bellsouth.net_ (mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net) > wrote:=20 =20 =20 Jack, =20 I think everybody is waiting for an opportunity to help someone with a=20 problem. So I am always ready with one that I can use a little assist on= .=20 I am having an engine surge and wildly fluctuating mixture when I get into= =20 the pattern and reduce the manifold pressure to around 15 inches and=20 below. I have an MT electric constant speed prop, so my engine rpm at thi= s time=20 is pretty high, usually around 6K. This is an area that can not be tuned= =20 on the ground and I suspect that is the problem, however, the MAP table is= =20 at the factory setting of zero in areas that I have not tuned. It can get= =20 pretty exciting when it starts so I would like to get it ironed out.=20 Others having similar problems or how to go about the fix?=20 Bill B=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] On Behalf Of _marv@lancair.net_=20 (mailto:marv@lancair.net)=20 Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 12:08 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Digest Activity =20 HI Jack,=20 I checked and found your subscription to be intact. It appears that there= =20 has been no Flyrotary traffic since 11/3. Very strange, indeed... but it= =20 happens I guess. Could be everybody's buttoning down for the winter...=20 we'll see.=20 =20 "Jack Hilditch" <_wmjack@t3cs.net_ (mailto:wmjack@t3cs.net) >: > Good morning, > =20 >=20 >=20 > I watch for the digest every morning but the last one that arrived is=20 >flyrotary > Digest #3834 dated 11/04/2013. Have I been unsubscribed for some unknown= =20 >reason > or has the list simply gone quiet? >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thanks very much, >=20 >=20 >=20 > Jack >=20 >=20 > =20 > Jack Hilditch, MCP >=20 > T3CS Systems Support > =20 > 205 Storrs Road >=20 > Mansfield Center, CT 06250 >=20 > Cell _860-729-6948_ (tel:860-729-6948) =20 >=20 > _wmjack@t3cs.net_=20 (mailto:wmjack@t3cs.net)=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 -- =20 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ =20 Archive and UnSub: =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --part1_37c1e.16a94848.3fb6a8ae_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
B2,
 
I suggest that you reconsider setting the prop as suggested. Perhaps M= ark=20 is used to flying fixed props and wants to operate his controllable prop li= ke=20 one of those. this defeats one of the greatest benefits of the C/= S=20 prop.
 
When you go to fine pitch, your choice of when, certainly not in your= =20 initial decent, (I do it on final,)
enrich your mixture to T.O setting and when you flatten the prop to T.= O.,=20 it acts like a wonderful speed brake, enabling you to do a steeper=20 approach.
 
The other effect is that if and when you have to do a go-around, the p= rop=20 is already set at T.O pitch, and all you have to worry about is advancing t= he=20 throttle for max climb.
 
Perhaps I missed the beginning of this string, but it is beyond m= y=20 comprehension why anybody would spend the extra bucks on a prop=20 that gives you better T.O and climb, while sacrificing possibly s= ome=20 top end speed, and not use it to it's maximum capability, especially in the= =20 light of a go-around and landings. Perhaps some dual with an instructor=20 who flies complex aircraft will help.
 
I don't think that you will ever find a pilot of a store bought craft = with=20 a c/s prop that would think of landing with any setting other than t.o. fin= e.=20 Remember GUMPS The M stands for Mixture (rich) the P stands for Prop (T.O. = fine=20 pitch). With quadrant throttles, full forward on mixture and prop or mixtur= es=20 and props. With vernier, mixture in then prop in.  If your governor is= set=20 correctly and you don't ram the controls in or operate the prop control too= =20 quickly, you will find it a great thing to use.
 
If you do not have a C/S governor, as part of your initial setup, you = will=20 have created a fine pitch stop and use your pitch switch to get it the= re=20 and the blade flattening will stop appropriately.
 
Maximize the use of your equipment--- you paid for it.
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 11/14/2013 3:46:01 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 bbradburry@bellsouth.net writes:
=

Mark,

I tried settin= g the=20 prop for a more coarse setting prior to landing like you describe.  = I=20 probably come in too fast, but with the prop set like that, I floated in= =20 ground effect almost the length of the runway, then when I added power to= go=20 around, I didn=E2=80=99t have much climb power.  I tried it a few ti= mes and it=20 was similar each time.  I could probably learn to land that way, but= I=20 gave it up and went back to the brake effect you get with a flat prop whe= n you=20 cut the power.

 

I will try the= =20 learning method you describe to see if that fixes the surge=20 problem.

 

You haven=E2= =80=99t reported=20 on how your plane is doing with the new panel???=

 

B2<= /SPAN>

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 = 2:35=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Di= gest=20 Activity

 

Bill,=20

I also have an M= /T=20 electric prop.  I discovered a long time ago that my landings are mo= re=20 predictable if I switch the prop over to manual mode prior to entering th= e=20 pattern.  I typically level off about 3-5 miles out, change the prop= rpm=20 to 2100, wait for it to re-adjust itself, then switch to manual mode.&nbs= p;=20 This makes the prop behave like a fixed-pitch, and from this point to=20 touchdown I fly it like a fixed-pitch prop. =20

Regarding your s= urging=20 issue, Tracy=20 suggested to me to simulate a landing, but at a safe altitude.  Set = up as=20 if you were in the pattern preparing to land, and then put the EM-2 into= =20 auto-tune mode.  Let the EM-2 tune the settings which are impossible= to=20 tune on the ground.  Worked for me.

Thanks,
Mark

 

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Bill Bradburr= y=20 <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>=20 wrote:

Jack,=20

I think everyb= ody is=20 waiting for an opportunity to help someone with a problem.  So I am= =20 always ready with one that I can use a little assist=20 on.

 <= /FONT>

I am having an= engine=20 surge and wildly fluctuating mixture when I get into the pattern and redu= ce=20 the manifold pressure to around 15 inches and below.  I have an MT= =20 electric constant speed prop, so my engine rpm at this time is pretty hig= h,=20 usually around 6K.  This is an area that can not be tuned on the gro= und=20 and I suspect that is the problem, however, the MAP table is at the facto= ry=20 setting of zero in areas that I have not tuned.  It can get pretty= =20 exciting when it starts so I would like to get it ironed=20 out.

 <= /FONT>

Others having = similar=20 problems or how to go about the fix?

 <= /FONT>

Bill=20 B

 <= /FONT>

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of marv@lancair.net
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 = 12:08=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Di= gest=20 Activity

 

HI=20 Jack,

 

I checke= d and=20 found your subscription to be intact.  It appears that there has bee= n no=20 Flyrotary traffic since 11/3.  Very strange, indeed... but it happen= s I=20 guess.  Could be everybody's buttoning down for the winter... we'll= =20 see.

 

 = =20 <marv>




 "Jack Hil= ditch"=20 <wmjack@t3cs.net>:

> Good morning,
>= ;=20
>
>
> I watch for the digest every morning but the l= ast=20 one that arrived is
>flyrotary
> Digest #3834 dated 11/04/20= 13.=20 Have I been unsubscribed for some unknown
>reason
> or has t= he=20 list simply gone quiet?
>
>
>
> Thanks very=20 much,
>
>
>
> Jack
>
>
>= =20
> Jack Hilditch, MCP
>
> T3CS Systems Support
>= =20
> 205 Storrs Road
>
> Mansfield Center, CT 06250
>
> Cell 860-729-6948
>
> <mailto:wmjack@t3cs.net> wmjack@t3cs.net
&g= t;=20
>
>
>
>
>
>=20 

--
 
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary=
.com/
 
= 
Ar=
chive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/fly=
rotary/List.html

 

=
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