X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.80] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6570970 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 23:11:25 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.143.80; envelope-from=shipchief@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.199]) by omr-m06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 1842E700000B5 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 23:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-ddb003c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-ddb003.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.52.73]) by mtaomg-db01.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id D2572E000081 for ; Wed, 30 Oct 2013 23:10:49 -0400 (EDT) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Wrong turbo, maybe better this try In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: shipchief@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D0A3FDEF4F3499_18B8_6D861_webmail-d235.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 38135-STANDARD Received: from 174.61.189.169 by webmail-d235.sysops.aol.com (149.174.160.240) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 30 Oct 2013 23:10:49 -0400 Message-Id: <8D0A3FDEF434DB4-18B8-1DBDD@webmail-d235.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [174.61.189.169] Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 23:10:49 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1383189050; bh=J7CdSJPedF6/2VVWqxlb0+YNFO0KsawhYpnNFPhNI6E=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=G5TNUlAr0GNGvmHeIBORwntbyEfzvKzpIZUb1hex68cTJIH3XRXy1k6T1pNqtkOO6 VkLEEld+Jc2bgPfPqhMBP7RVwtS+XwPHFuveW6xlWWZtcy07ruTWaad1Nhiq1bSaRH IaqfO7Rackwu5Wl3xkctyy2imaSGdWDFmHGf+Psk= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c75271ca3967fc This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D0A3FDEF4F3499_18B8_6D861_webmail-d235.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" First, I'm sorry the pic of my RV-8 is sideways, something about iPhones...= I don't get it.=20 Today I got the engine cowl on and tethered the plane to my Pickup. I ran i= t about a half an hour. I richened the Mode 3 mixture as it warmed up. Inst= alling the new turbo caused the engine to run very lean compared to the old= one.=20 When it got above 150F I started adding power and taking pictures of the E= ngine Monitor to get some data points. The TO-4E 1.30 A/R turbine housing is not too loose. Today's highest record= ed RPM was 4883, 35.0 "Hg manifold, and about 44"Hg turbo boost pressure be= fore the throttle. So this is a huge improvement over the previous turbo, a= 60-1 P-trim TO-4 with .81 A/R exhaust housing. Before, I was running about= 55"Hg from the turbo, thru part open throttle to get about 38"Hg manifold = pressure and 4600 RPM. About 17"Hg pressure drop across the partially open = throttle. now with lower turbo boost I get only 9"Hg pressure drop across t= he partially open throttle, and the engine RPM is higher with a lower manif= old pressure. The greater A/R exhaust housing must be reducing the exhaust = back pressure, which also reduced the exhaust dilution to the intake charge= . I curtailed the experiment when I noticed the oil temp @ 204F. Water temp w= as about 185F. When I reduced power the oil temp started back down. I think= it will be flyable, with excellent water temp control, and pretty good oil= temp control at anything other than high static power.=20 This prop is a CATTO 2 blade, a left turning prop identical in diameter, pi= tch and area to that intended for a 180 HP Lycoming O-360. It should turn a= bout 2200 RPM static to be equal to an O-360, which would be about 150 HP. = I got 2229 Propeller RPM so that puts me in good company, and I still have = more untapped boost pressure.=20 The 50 trim compressor discharge is smaller than that on the 60-1, so I use= a 2" to 2.5" adapter hose to fit it to the existing charge air pipe. I hav= e a Stock Mazda intercooler, the only thing I've found in my on-line searc= h which might fit my airframe, it has a 1.75" inlet pipe. The turbo's 2" OD outlet is thick wall cast aluminum, so I'm betting the ID= is pretty similar to the ID of the 1.75" OD inlet tube to the intercooler.= I'm collecting the parts... Meanwhile, I plan to give the auto-tune program on Tracy's Engine Monitor a= try on the next tethered run. -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wed, Oct 30, 2013 4:59 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Wrong turbo, maybe better this try Dave, What is the A/R ratio of your TO-4E/50 turbine housing??..........My TO-= 4E/50 (hope to run in this lifetime) has a 1.15 A/R ratio turbine housing. = Is your TO-4 what you were running at Reno ??.............. Thanks, Kelly Troyer Dyke Delta_"Eventually" 13B_RD1C_EC2_EM2 On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 5:33 PM, David Leonard wrote: You are right Scott, that is a much better turbo, though I doubt you were e= xperiencing compressor stall at power settings you would want to use on the= ground. I also fly with the TO4E-50, but have used the 60-1 in the past w= ith good success. And yes, your turbine housing should be as big as you ca= n reasonably fit. Dave Leonard On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Scott Emery wrote: Here is a pic of my 13BT powered RV-8. I've already blown & rebuilt the eng= ine, now I've learned from ground running and forums that the 60-1 turbo wi= th .81 A/R housing was not good in 2 ways: the compressor was too large and= the turbine housing too small. The resultant increase in exhaust Back pres= sure rising too rapidly with boost pressure. This held back any hoped-for p= ower gain. Also, the compressor seems to have been on the verge of stall, w= ith fluctuating boost pressure during tethered power testing. The pictured TO-4E has a 50 trim compressor & 1.30 A/R turbine house. I did= run it briefly before I had to return to work, it ran very lean. I'll be r= eprogramming the EC-2 during the next run. This forum & Ross Farnham over o= n the Vansairforce were big helps getting me researching in the right direc= tion. Possible future intercooler location is along the Charge Air pipe on the le= ft side. The hot jacket water pipe will need to be relocated. Sent from my iPhone -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html --=20 ----------MB_8D0A3FDEF4F3499_18B8_6D861_webmail-d235.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
First, I'm sorry the pic of my RV-8 is sideways, something about iPhon= es...I don't get it.
Today I got the engine cowl on and tethered the plane to my Picku= p. I ran it about a half an hour. I richened the Mode 3 mixt= ure as it warmed up. Installing the new turbo caused the engine t= o run very lean compared to the old one.
 When it got above 150F I started adding power and taking pi= ctures of the Engine Monitor to get some data points.
The TO-4E 1.30 A/R turbine housing is not too loose. Today's highest r= ecorded RPM was 4883, 35.0 "Hg manifold, and about 44"Hg turbo boost pressu= re before the throttle. So this is a huge improvement over the previous tur= bo, a 60-1 P-trim TO-4 with .81 A/R exhaust housing. Before, I was running = about 55"Hg from the turbo, thru part open throttle to get about 38"Hg= manifold pressure and 4600 RPM. About 17"Hg pressure drop across the parti= ally open throttle. now with lower turbo boost I get only 9"Hg pressure dro= p across the partially open throttle, and the engine RPM is higher with a l= ower manifold pressure. The greater A/R exhaust housing must be reducing th= e exhaust back pressure, which also reduced the exhaust dilution to the int= ake charge.
I curtailed the experiment when I noticed the oil temp @ 204F. Water t= emp was about 185F. When I reduced power the oil temp started back down. I = think it will be flyable, with excellent water temp control, and prett= y good oil temp control at anything other than high static power.
This prop is a CATTO 2 blade, a left turning prop identical = in diameter, pitch and area to that intended for a 180 HP Lycoming O-3= 60. It should turn about 2200 RPM static to be equal to an O-360, whic= h would be about 150 HP. I got 2229 Propeller RPM so that puts me in good c= ompany, and I still have more untapped boost pressure.
The 50 trim compressor discharge is smaller than that on the 60-1, so = I use a 2" to 2.5" adapter hose to fit it to the existing charge air p= ipe. I have a  Stock Mazda intercooler, the only thing I've found= in my on-line search which might fit my airframe, it has a 1.75" inlet pip= e.
The turbo's 2" OD outlet is thick wall cast aluminum, so I'm bett= ing the ID is pretty similar to the ID of the 1.75" OD inlet tube to t= he intercooler. I'm collecting the parts...
Meanwhile, I plan to give the auto-tune program on Tracy's Engine Moni= tor a try on the next tethered run.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, Oct 30, 2013 4:59 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Wrong turbo, maybe better this try

Dave,

   What is the A/R ratio of your TO-4E/50 turbine housing??.= .........My TO-4E/50 (hope to run in this lifetime) has a 1.15 A/R ratio tu= rbine housing. Is your
TO-4 what you were running at Reno ??..............

Thanks,

Kelly Troyer
Dyke Delta_"Eventually"
13B_RD1C_EC2_EM2


On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 5:33 PM, David Leonard <= span dir=3D"ltr"><wdleonard@gmail= .com> wrote:
You are right Scott, that is a much better turbo, though I= doubt you were experiencing compressor stall at power settings you would w= ant to use on the ground.  I also fly with the TO4E-50, but have used = the 60-1 in the past with good success.  And yes, your turbine housing= should be as big as you can reasonably fit.

Dave Leonard


On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Scott Emery <shipchief@aol.com> wrote:




Here is a pic of my 13BT powered RV-8. I've already blown & rebuilt the= engine, now I've learned from ground running and forums that the 60-1 turb= o with .81 A/R housing was not good in 2 ways: the compressor was too large= and the turbine housing too small. The resultant increase in exhaust Back = pressure rising too rapidly with boost pressure. This held back any hoped-f= or power gain. Also, the compressor seems to have been on the verge of stal= l, with fluctuating boost pressure during tethered power testing.
The pictured TO-4E has a 50 trim compressor & 1.30 A/R turbine house. I= did run it briefly before I had to return to work, it ran very lean. I'll = be reprogramming the EC-2 during the next run. This forum & Ross Farnha= m over on the Vansairforce were big helps getting me researching in the rig= ht direction.
Possible future intercooler location is along the Charge Air pipe on the le= ft side. The hot jacket water pipe will need to be relocated.

Sent from my iPhone
--
Homepage:  htt= p://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/li= sts/flyrotary/List.html





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