X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm16-vm1.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([98.138.91.47] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.7) with ESMTPS id 6564986 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 25 Oct 2013 19:37:35 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.138.91.47; envelope-from=kjohnsondds@yahoo.com Received: from [98.138.226.176] by nm16.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 2013 23:37:00 -0000 Received: from [98.138.101.167] by tm11.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 2013 23:37:00 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1078.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 Oct 2013 23:37:00 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 757660.77412.bm@omp1078.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 82847 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Oct 2013 23:37:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1382744220; bh=uH8pVx7lmzSouc0fP9Y1Eu8YxWEEMSNRYnoH7awQmbg=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=AAiRUmr+b5uzLcIk62PMe9cjFsK87PixOzM8qDtT/NZoNgJPOIVb5Bguwn+9a2vkWdaVnSV7SRvcZuYVTwZkCFrZDqbRhAflsW4qbSidgWe0GCI+Y739knQcFMIG/cRIB7r7qHqk11lGX1/COyIwFTMC4Je21/Mi33FkA6aHG+Q= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Rocket-MIMEInfo:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=VAa7R1FZdjIqG5E5e8lV2Asi94WuSiX81vahfFIeBBD3qCZkXXNF3fPm1FvoVPPHErybXs+7v4fMgMp1v5nRr+HaNVKCbu6ZzVTWuvs93erF3+uPolq4tACv+V13Uad704g7w/TyBTfxCrarkGA0n1yeTw9TrYmfvYo4VI7USjE=; X-YMail-OSG: W78AR7kVM1kuh.8EizgqmTAq10FjIf5MrNRPrNkRDcKasKA qBAGcar_JSaty_1g2sul2DLi_5UyKdLRUY8uw0GKI_FQGiFs1oFDzFi_0uxK 4XCTGn03aNYSmJYgB0fVe65rJ_TqmNRYJTnGVZ06YIbQZOhHfXt5dppKyyqI PH9bK_MX3tAVVFb7gwMfMexi2O_Pg6VM9uum6jQjhPmJ_y6gnfpRCZKKDLT3 _pYtK52yIfZuxdNZV6lrJS8VNRNyKyu6szgNDg61UaCr97LDI7MM3t4xU3OU 0T4apyDNh.HIQovXuc_xrQWY02PUxAgbiBn..3IMWJmsIaT3ZCbPSVATb6QJ t4VTF7nR9QCGN3WAisqySqYdMtxhHhWJAoaxps_NsCmA3YLL5meaGNuOnjNo MLtC_i8zmk3AofCOAUBpH7ss5NkBsVsLZTV1mmrvlKiMm9dfb518..jg2C4t EyaISrqUadrBPMMi3UrPBWE6rfpUY_BGpnMLQhAqDqs.PlQdl0USti1imvXn lbPw3iVuK1qpEkc72SjHWYBHfEKFlwCMTbAZOrMXFScXBQbmZIG.JuSpgAPA YqND7vqcIkpJeY.0K9VjW9ub6WMseD5rYY_JicHotkhUkBiN9DRX3tzryFl9 UbBFu5xiBvP24FNHOKtJ1NvTpzeHRTqUH057OcaqtC00.XTU1PaU4AfIoDmp TwvZTBEKmMYe_Tp1mAtlpxP7fHzRs83SmJUf8wYE5bP_0iYfJ04dyIyyPK39 jm4Huw0yRbC09w2novogzh3doAlV3Mxg- Received: from [66.168.8.63] by web125502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 25 Oct 2013 16:37:00 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,VGhhbmtzIEx5bm4sCkl0IHdvdWxkIHNlZW0gdGhhdCB0aGUgcmVhc29uIHRoZSBzcGFyayBwbHVncyBmaXJlIGV2ZXJ5IG9uY2UgaW4gYSB3aGlsZSBpcyBiZWNhdXNlIHRoZXkgYXJlIHdldC4gCktlbgoKCgoKCk9uIFdlZG5lc2RheSwgT2N0b2JlciAyMywgMjAxMyAxMTozMiBQTSwgIkxlaGFub3ZlckBhb2wuY29tIiA8TGVoYW5vdmVyQGFvbC5jb20.IHdyb3RlOgogClRoZSBtb3N0IG9mdGVuIGZvdW5kIHByb2JsZW0gaW4gYSBuby1zdGFydCBpcyBsYWNrIG9mIGhlYXQgb2YgY29tcHJlc3Npb24uIApObyABMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.160.587 References: Message-ID: <1382744220.62339.YahooMailNeo@web125502.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 16:37:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Kenneth Johnson Reply-To: Kenneth Johnson Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: help starting engine To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1546730761-1841677925-1382744220=:62339" ---1546730761-1841677925-1382744220=:62339 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Lynn,=0AIt would seem that the reason the spark plugs fire every onc= e in a while is because they are wet. =0AKen=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wednesday,= October 23, 2013 11:32 PM, "Lehanover@aol.com" wrote:= =0A =0AThe most often found problem in a no-start is lack of heat of compre= ssion. =0ANo heat of compression means no fuel vaporization and that means = you may get a =0Alimp poof style ignition followed by fouled plugs and frus= tration. With fresh =0Aconventional style plugs like Autolite AR2592 gapped= at .020" just use an oil =0Asquirt can and shoot in two good squirts of an= y brand cheap motor oil into each =0Ahousing through the lower (Leading) pl= ug holes. Spin the engine for a second to =0Alube up the =0Aside seals=A0bu= t with the ignition disabled. Install the plugs and prime =0Athe engine ele= ctronically or manually depending on your system. Fire it up. =0A=A0=0AUsua= lly when I assist in person, I find that some people report that all is =0A= in order, but on review, all is not in order. Not for lack of trying on the= =0Aowners part to be sure. If it trys to run, or seems to run as long as t= he =0Astarter is helping, you are on the right track. The rotary suffers fr= om high =0Aleak rates while at cranking speed. So you get low compression r= eadings. Check =0Acompression to be above 120 PSI. Then add the oil=A0trick= and look again. My =0Arace engines have less than stock compression due to= late closing intake ports =0A(85 degrees ABDC when 50 degrees ABDC for sto= ck porting). They start in one =0Arevolution. Computer controlled engines n= eed one revolution to find the start =0Atooth.=0A=A0=0AIf the prop is insta= lled=A0remove it.=A0=A0Before starting, spin =0Aup oil pressure with the pl= ugs removed and ignition disabled. Once you have oil =0Apressure, put a spa= re plug on a plug wire and check for spark. =0AAlways have a plug on the wi= re. Some ignition systems can be ruined by =0Afiring to an open circuit.=A0= Then proceed as above. =0A=A0=0AOnce running, check for oil pressure first.= Then check for coolant =0Aflow=0Aat the outlet from the pump. Then run to = operating temperature (Coolant) =0Athen let it cool to room temp and check = coolant quantity and for oil and coolant =0Aleaks. If all is well repeat un= til you have 2 hours of actual run time for =0Acarbon or ceramic seals. 4 h= ours for stock iron seals. Engine should start =0Anearly instantly in warme= r weather. Cold weather starting is more difficult. =0AEarly engines had a = bottle of antifreeze on the firewall. In cold weather this =0Aantifreeze wa= s squirted into each housing to remove frost from the rotors and =0Aadd som= e volume and sealing. Taking up volume adds to compression ratio. =0A=A0=0A= When I first started racing rotaries, I had a junk engine actually out of a= =0Ajunk yard that was gifted to me because it had rolled off of a pile of = engines =0Aand was blocking a lane. I had to pour in 1/2 cup of hot coffee = and four squirts =0Aof motor oil to get a start. But it always started. It = drew a crowd to watch me =0Ado it, but it always started. Later engines wer= e much better.=0A=A0=0ALynn E. Hanover=A0=0A=A0=0AIn a message dated 10/23/= 2013 10:39:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =0Akjohnsondds@yahoo.com writes:= =0AHi All,=0A>I have been trying to start my engine for several weeks witho= ut success.=A0 I would appreciate any suggestions.=0A>=0A>=0A>New 1987 13= b N/A engine=0A>MicroTech LT-10 Ignition system=0A>Engine spins well with= starter=0A>Fuel injectors work well and engine gets good fuel=0A>I have = checked all connections and good ground exists=0A>I have checked crank ang= le sensor to make sure all marks were lined-up correctly=0A>=0A>=0A>Proble= m:=A0 All spark plugs fire, but rarely.=A0 Each time each rotor spin twice= , each plug will fire about once.=A0 I have changed the crank angle sensor= with another.=A0 However, I am uncertain either one functions correctly.= =A0 I do not know if there is a way to check each one to see if they are = correct?=0A>=0A>=0A>Suggestions?=A0 =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Thanks.=0A>Ken Johnson= =0A--=0AHomepage:=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/=0AArchive and UnSub:=A0 http= ://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ---1546730761-1841677925-1382744220=:62339 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Lynn,
It would seem that the reason the spark plugs= fire every once in a while is because they are wet.
Ken
=

On= Wednesday, October 23, 2013 11:32 PM, "Lehanover@aol.com" <Lehanover@ao= l.com> wrote:
=0A=0A =0A =0A
=0A
The most often found= problem in a no-start is lack of heat of compression. =0ANo heat of compre= ssion means no fuel vaporization and that means you may get a =0Alimp poof = style ignition followed by fouled plugs and frustration. With fresh =0Aconv= entional style plugs like Autolite AR2592 gapped at .020" just use an oil = =0Asquirt can and shoot in two good squirts of any brand cheap motor oil in= to each =0Ahousing through the lower (Leading) plug holes. Spin the engine = for a second to =0Alube up the
=0A
side seals but with the i= gnition disabled. Install the plugs and prime =0Athe engine electronically = or manually depending on your system. Fire it up. =0A
=0A
 =0A
Usually when I assist in person, I find that some people report= that all is =0Ain order, but on review, all is not in order. Not for lack = of trying on the =0Aowners part to be sure. If it trys to run, or seems to = run as long as the =0Astarter is helping, you are on the right track. The r= otary suffers from high =0Aleak rates while at cranking speed. So you get l= ow compression readings. Check =0Acompression to be above 120 PSI. Then add= the oil trick and look again. My =0Arace engines have less than stock= compression due to late closing intake ports =0A(85 degrees ABDC when 50 d= egrees ABDC for stock porting). They start in one =0Arevolution. Computer c= ontrolled engines need one revolution to find the start =0Atooth.
=0A<= div> 
=0A
If the prop is installed remove it.  = ;Before starting, spin =0Aup oil pressure with the plugs removed and igniti= on disabled. Once you have oil =0Apressure, put a spare plug on a plug wire= and check for spark.
=0A
Always have a plug on the wire. Some ig= nition systems can be ruined by =0Afiring to an open circuit. Then pro= ceed as above.
=0A
 
=0A
Once running, check for oi= l pressure first. Then check for coolant =0Aflow
=0A
at the outlet= from the pump. Then run to operating temperature (Coolant) =0Athen let it = cool to room temp and check coolant quantity and for oil and coolant =0Alea= ks. If all is well repeat until you have 2 hours of actual run time for =0A= carbon or ceramic seals. 4 hours for stock iron seals. Engine should start = =0Anearly instantly in warmer weather. Cold weather starting is more diffic= ult. =0AEarly engines had a bottle of antifreeze on the firewall. In cold w= eather this =0Aantifreeze was squirted into each housing to remove frost fr= om the rotors and =0Aadd some volume and sealing. Taking up volume adds to = compression ratio.
=0A
 
=0A
When I first started r= acing rotaries, I had a junk engine actually out of a =0Ajunk yard that was= gifted to me because it had rolled off of a pile of engines =0Aand was blo= cking a lane. I had to pour in 1/2 cup of hot coffee and four squirts =0Aof= motor oil to get a start. But it always started. It drew a crowd to watch = me =0Ado it, but it always started. Later engines were much better.
= =0A
 
=0A
Lynn E. Hanover 
=0A
 
= =0A
=0A
In a message dated 10/23/2013 10:39:13 P.M. Eastern Dayligh= t Time, =0Akjohnsondds@yahoo.com writes:
=0A
=0A
=0A
Hi All,
=0A
I have been trying to start my engi= ne for several weeks without =0A success.  I would appreciate any sug= gestions.
=0A

=0A
New= =0A 1987 13b N/A engine
=0A
MicroTe= ch =0A LT-10 Ignition system
=0A
Eng= ine =0A spins well with starter
=0A
= Fuel =0A injectors work well and engine gets good fuel
=0A
I =0A have checked all connections and good ground = exists
=0A
I =0A have checked crank = angle sensor to make sure all marks were lined-up =0A correctly
=0A =

=0A
Problem:  =0A All spark plugs fire, but rarely.  Each time e= ach rotor spin twice, each =0A plug will fire about once.  I have cha= nged the crank angle sensor with =0A another.  However, I am uncertai= n either one functions correctly.  I =0A do not know if there is a wa= y to check each one to see if they are =0A correct?
=0A

=0A
Sugges= tions?  =0A
=0A

= =0A
Thanks.
=0A
Ken =0A Johnson

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:  = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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