Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #60303
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: waterless coolant?
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 18:33:27 -0400
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Thanks for the reference and analysis, Michael
 
One of you charts points out that at 50F, Evans fluid is 50 times the viscosity of water – and it goes up even more as the temperature decreases.
 
This makes it very difficult at cold temperatures to push the fluid through radiators and as we know - if flow is down - so is cooling effectiveness.  At sufficiently low temperatures, I believe you would find that the pump caveates in the fluid rather than moving it through the radiator.  This leads to the non-moving fluid in the engine block increasingly absorbing heat – without being able to transfer it to a radiator/air until finally the heated fluid builds up sufficient pressure to blow through the weakest points – perhaps radiator hoses/clamps/pump seals, etc.
 
Not for our application - in my opinion
 
 
Ed
 
 
 
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 7:16 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: waterless coolant?
 
Al:
 
I did a bit more digging on the stuff and came up with this which makes the same point.
 
Michael Silvius
Scarborough, Maine
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Wick
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 10:33 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: waterless coolant?
 
I've researched this product thoroughly and used to do fluid heat transfer experiments in my occupation. If you drained all the fluid in your radiator, replaced it with 100% antifreeze (normal ethylene glycol) you'd have identical boiling point and heat transfer characteristics to Evans product. So you could operate zero pressure, as it wouldn't boil over until it reached 392F.
 
Unfortunately both Evans and 100% glycol have very low heat transfer coefficient (.66). They are both insulators, so all things being equal, you have to increase your radiator area by 30% to achieve the same engine operating temperature. Compared to running with 30% glycol mix, that's quite a penalty.
 
Ethylene glycol is substantially superior to Evans, as you can tune it's efficiency by adding water. For example, it you decide to operate with more efficient 50/50 mix, the heat transfer coefficient jumps from .66 to .86. You get to reduce your radiator size a lot, yet still have 230F boiling point.
 
Evans has a great propaganda web site, a lot of people get sucked in. It's one of those rare products that has zero redeeming value. Far inferior to glycol. Yet I bet it will continue to sell for decades.
 
 
-al wick
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 11:15 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: waterless coolant?
 
You might want to check what happens to the viscosity of this fluid at lower temperatures.  Its been a while, but as I recall this fluid  turns into heavy syrup at lower temps.  You can visualize your water pump churning (cavitating)  in a void of this fluid at low temperatures while not moving any through your cooling system. 
 
The fluid next to the rotors would undoubtedly get hot  -while that in the radiator and water pump may act as a (Temporary) plug to coolant flow – until the heated fluid explosively forces the issue.
 
I tried finding the viscosity charts they used to have on the site, but could not find it.
 
My impression when I looked into this fluid back a few years ago, was that this heavy viscosity at low temps was probably not much of a draw back  compared to the benefits in a racing motor – heated garage, summer temps, etc.  But, might be a different story for aircraft application.
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com
 
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:05 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: waterless coolant?
 

This appears interesting.  I looked at the website and was unable to find the heat capacity of the fluid.  The higher boiling temp may not be helpful if the heat capacity is such that you need a large delta T to transfer the same amount of heat as a water-based system.

 

One must also consider the effect of the higher operating temperature on engine oils.  At some temperature, oil loses its lubrication ability.  I don’t know what that temp is but assume it is different for different oils.  Just because the coolant allows higher operating temperatures, doesn’t mean one should do that.

 

Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE

President

acumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc.

 

540-786-2200

www.acumen-ea.com

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Michael Silvius
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2013 1:19 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] waterless coolant?

 

While on the subject of cooling, I am curious if anyone has tried the waterless coolant? Seems to offer some advantages, namely higher boiling boint and low pressure, is there any reason it should not be used in our aplication?

 

Michael

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