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[70.193.192.93]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d66sm74624940yhe.1.2013.01.09.06.33.25 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 09 Jan 2013 06:33:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup References: From: Tracy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-7B536A1A-D89F-405F-8771-11046C95E96B X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10A523) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 09:33:24 -0500 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-7B536A1A-D89F-405F-8771-11046C95E96B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not sure I can pinpoint the serial numbers but if your original installa= tion guide wire list showed an O2 input (labeled as UNUSED at that time) is i= s updatable to the closed loop version. I think anything with a serial num= ber higher than 300 had them. All of the rectangular case EC2's had O2 inpu= t. =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad On Jan 9, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Stephen Izett wrote: > Hi Tracy > Could you clarify what delineates the point where the EC2 has O2 sensor in= put so I can ascertain if mine can take your latest closed loop software? >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Steve Izett=20 >=20 >=20 > On 09/01/2013, at 9:32 PM, Tracy wrote: >=20 >> There have been many updates in the past 4 years, but none of them have b= een mandatory. Send it in for an update and I'll check everything out at th= e same time. >>=20 >> Tracy >>=20 >> Sent from my iPad >>=20 >> On Jan 8, 2013, at 11:23 PM, "Bill Bradburry" w= rote: >>=20 >>> Brian, >>> =20 >>> AFAIK the upgrade in =E2=80=9907 is the latest one. I have not heard of= an upgrade since that one on the EC-2. Discounting the one that Tracy has r= eady now of course. >>> =20 >>> Bill B >>> =20 >>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On B= ehalf Of bktrub@aol.com >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 7:16 PM >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup >>> =20 >>> Oh yeah, I did also have my ECU upgraded in the last two years, made a h= uge difference. Maybe you should get that done first to rule that out as a f= actor.=20 >>> =20 >>> Brian Trubee >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bill Bradburry >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> Sent: Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:56 pm >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup >>>=20 >>> I don=E2=80=99t know what is early. The last upgrade was Nov =E2=80=990= 7. What do I need to do to get the new upgrade installed? >>> =20 >>> Bill B >>> =20 >>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On B= ehalf Of Tracy >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 12:00 PM >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup >>> =20 >>> Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version is complete. Don't know what vint= age your EC2 is but the early ones did not have O2 sensor inputs and can't t= ake advantage of the closed loop modes. That is unrelated to the possible c= ause of the hiccup though. >>> =20 >>> Tracy >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPad >>>=20 >>> On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" w= rote: >>>> I went thru and cleaned up all my grounds and it seems to have fixed ev= erything with the exception of the hiccup.=20 >>>> =20 >>>> Tracy, have you finished the bench testing on the EC-2 upgrade yet? I w= ould really like to try and see if that will fix this problem. My wife real= ly doesn=E2=80=99t like that hiccup! >>>> =20 >>>> Bill B >>>> =20 >>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On= Behalf Of Bill Bradburry >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 3:41 PM >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose >>>> =20 >>>> I currently have a separate ground from each of the batteries to a Nuck= olls =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D ground point. Everything inside the c= ockpit grounds here. Also the fuel pumps and injectors ground here. The co= ils ground on the center iron. There are separate grounds from each battery= to the PSRU plate on each side of the starter. I have considered bringing t= wo separate grounds from the center iron to the batteries just in case there= is resistance getting from the center iron to the PSRU plate. >>>> I am also taking all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anythin= g that seems that it might not be properly bonded. >>>> =20 >>>> I am doing this for two reasons. One, I am still getting that occasion= al =E2=80=9Chiccup=E2=80=9D that is violent enough to shake the plane when i= t happens. It is bad enough that I am concerned that it might be bad for th= e pin in the PSRU. I am also wondering if it could be the PSRU that has she= ared the pin and is slipping? Someone on here had that happen and I would r= eally appreciate a description of what that sounded and felt like and also h= ow I could make certain that is not the problem. No, I don=E2=80=99t want t= o dismantle the PSRU to check it unless that seems to be the only way to che= ck it. >>>> =20 >>>> Also, Tracy, how are you progressing on getting the upgrade for the EC-= 2 that might fix this hiccup if that is what it is? I think you had it done= for the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 implementation?? >>>> =20 >>>> The second reason for going thru the grounds is that I am having an int= ermittent problem with my GTX327 transponder, MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak= autopilot shutting down. This seems to happen more often when I key the mi= ke on my GNS430W radio, but keying the mike is not required. It sometimes h= appens just out of the blue. Also most of the time, only the transponder sh= uts off. Only sometimes does the moving map and autopilot join in the fun. >>>> =20 >>>> Everybody tells me that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going= thru the ground system. >>>> =20 >>>> I welcome all opinions and input! >>>> =20 >>>> Bill B >>>> =20 >>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On= Behalf Of Tracy >>>> Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 10:56 AM >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose >>>> =20 >>>> Tying the engine parts together should not be necessary but you still n= eed a separate ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your av= ionics ground point. Also separate feeds from +12 battery to starter/alter= nator and avionics. You can Use the starter/alternator feed for coils, inje= ctors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus. >>>>=20 >>>> Tracy >>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: >>>> Several months ago, after a discussion with Tracy, I ran grounding stra= ps from each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the starter mount. I= had previously had the grounding strap running between the center iron and t= he =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D grounding block on the firewall. Tracy s= uggested I move it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding bloc= k. >>>> Now I have the igniters grounded on the center iron and I am considerin= g running a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to t= ie each section of the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich=E2=80=9D together by running= a wire between them. This would to be certain that the ground is good on t= he igniters. >>>> =20 >>>> Any opinions on this?? >>>> =20 >>>> Bill B >>>> =20 >>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On= Behalf Of Andrew Martin >>>> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:29 PM >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose >>>> =20 >>>> Bill >>>>=20 >>>> As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected batter= y direct to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engin= e without problems. >>>> I remember Tracy posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to fin= d in the archives now. >>>>=20 >>>> Andrew >>>> =20 >>>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle wrote= : >>>> Bill,=20 >>>> =20 >>>> You may want to check your engine ground. Starter current may be causi= ng this. >>>> =20 >>>> Mark S.=20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: >>>> I am working on cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have >>>> several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be b= urnt >>>> like it had an electrical spark exit from it. I have not found anythin= g in >>>> the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have= >>>> jumped?? >>>>=20 >>>> Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? Do I= >>>> have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static= ? >>>> The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter th= at >>>> has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is= >>>> grounded to the engine. >>>>=20 >>>> Bill B >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >>>> =20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-7B536A1A-D89F-405F-8771-11046C95E96B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm not sure I can pinpoint the serial= numbers but if your original installation guide wire list showed an O2 inpu= t (labeled as UNUSED at that time) is is updatable to the closed loop versio= n.   I think anything with a serial number higher than 300 had them. &n= bsp;All of the rectangular case EC2's had O2 input.    
=
Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 9, 2013, a= t 8:39 AM, Stephen Izett <steveizett= @me.com> wrote:

Hi Tracy<= div>Could you clarify what delineates the point where the EC2 has O2 sensor i= nput so I can ascertain if mine can take your latest closed loop software?

Cheers

Steve Izett 


On 09/01/2013, at 9:32 PM, Tracy wrote:=

There have been many updates in the past 4 years, but none o= f them have been mandatory.  Send it in for an update and I'll check ev= erything out at the same time.

Tracy

Sent fr= om my iPad

On Jan 8, 2013, at 11:23 PM, "Bill Bradburry" <<= a href=3D"mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net">bbradburry@bellsouth.net> w= rote:

=

Brian,

 

AFAIK the upgrade in =E2=80=9907 is the= latest one.  I have not heard of an upgrade since that one on the EC-2.  D= iscounting the one that Tracy<= /st1:city> has ready now of course.

=  

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]= On Behalf Of bktrub@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 20= 13 7:16 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aero= quip hose changed to hiccup

 

Oh yeah, I did also have my ECU upgrad= ed in the last two years, made a huge difference. Maybe you should get that don= e first to rule that out as a factor. 

=  

Brian Trubee

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et>
Sent: Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:56 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I don=E2=80=99t know what is early.&nbs= p; The last upgrade was Nov =E2=80=9907.  What do I need to do to get the new upgra= de installed?

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Bill B

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 20= 13 12:00 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aero= quip hose changed to hiccup=

 <= font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial">

Yes, bench testing on= the EC2 version is complete.  Don't know what vintage your EC2 is but the early ones did n= ot have O2 sensor inputs and can't take advantage of the closed loop modes.  That is unrelated to the possible cause of the hiccup though.

 <= font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial">

Tracy

Sent from my iPad


On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I went thru and cleaned up all my groun= ds and it seems to have fixed everything with the exception of the hiccup. = ;

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

Tracy, have you finished the bench testing on the EC-2 upgrade yet?  I would really like to try and see if that will fix this problem.  My wife really doesn=E2=80=99t like that hiccup!

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Bill B

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2= 012 3:41 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aero= quip hose

 <= font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial">

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I currently have a separate ground from= each of the batteries to a Nuckolls =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D ground p= oint.  Everything inside the cockpit grounds here.  Also the fuel pumps and injectors ground here.  The coils ground on the center iron.  Ther= e are separate grounds from each battery to the PSRU plate on each side of the= starter.  I have considered bringing two separate grounds from the cent= er iron to the batteries just in case there is resistance getting from the cent= er iron to the PSRU plate.=

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I am also taking all my grounds apart t= o check for corrosion or anything that seems that it might not be properly bonded.

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I am doing this for two reasons.  One, I am still getting that occasional =E2=80=9Chiccup=E2=80=9D that is vio= lent enough to shake the plane when it happens.  It is bad enough that I am concerned that i= t might be bad for the pin in the PSRU.  I am also wondering if it could b= e the PSRU that has sheared the pin and is slipping?  Someone on here had= that happen and I would really appreciate a description of what that sounded= and felt like and also how I could make certain that is not the problem.&nbs= p; No, I don=E2=80=99t want to dismantle the PSRU to check it unless that seems= to be the only way to check it.<= /o:p>

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Also, Tracy, how are you progressing on getting t= he upgrade for the EC-2 that might fix this hiccup if that is what it is? = I think you had it done for the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 implementation??=

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">The second reason for going thru the grounds is that I am having an intermittent problem with my GTX327 transpond= er, MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak autopilot shutting down.  This seems to happen more often when I key the mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying the mi= ke is not required.  It sometimes happens just out of the blue.  Also= most of the time, only the transponder shuts off.  Only sometimes does t= he moving map and autopilot join in the fun.

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Everybody tells me that it sounds like a= ground issue, hence I am going thru the ground system.

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I welcome all opinions and input!

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">Bill B

<= span style=3D"font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"> 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2= 012 10:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aero= quip hose

 <= font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial">

Tying the engine parts together should not be necessary but you still need a separate ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionics ground point.   Also separate feeds from +12 battery to starter/alternator and avionics.  You can Use= the starter/alternator feed for coils, injectors & fuel pumps to keep no= ise down on the avionics bus.

Tracy

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 a= t 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry <= bbradburry@bellsouth.net>= wrote:

<= font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial">Several months ago, after a discussion with Tracy, I ran grounding straps from each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of th= e starter mount.  I had previously had the grounding strap running betwee= n the center iron and the =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D grounding block on t= he firewall.  Tracy su= ggested I move it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding block.=

<= font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial">Now I have the igniters grounded on the= center iron and I am considering running a ground strap from the center iron= to the batteries or trying to tie each section of the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich=E2= =80=9D together by running a wire between them.  This would to be certain that the grou= nd is good on the igniters.=

<= font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"> 

<= font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial">Any opinions on this??

<= font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"> 

<= font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial">Bill B

<= font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"> 

<= b>From:<= /b> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Martin Sent: Friday, December 07, 20= 12 8:29 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aero= quip hose

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman"> 

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman">Bill

As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery dir= ect to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine without= problems.
I remember Tracy posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to find in the archives now.=

Andrew

=  

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman">On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>= wrote:

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman">Bill, 

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman"> 

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman">You may want to check your engine ground.  Starter current may be causing this.

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman"> 

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman">Mark S. 

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman"> 

=   

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman">On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman">I am working on cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have
several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burnt<= br> like it had an electrical spark exit from it.  I have not found anythin= g in
the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have
jumped??

Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it?  Do I=
have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static?
= The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is
grounded to the engine.

Bill B


--
Homepage:  http= ://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/list= s/flyrotary/List.html

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman"> 

<= font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New Roman"> 

 <= font size=3D"2" color=3D"black" face=3D"Arial">

=

= --Apple-Mail-7B536A1A-D89F-405F-8771-11046C95E96B--