X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-mb02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.163] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6001808 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 19:16:42 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.207.163; envelope-from=bktrub@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.201]) by imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 709513800012D for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 19:16:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-due002c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-due002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.67.69]) by mtaomg-db03.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 0D6D4E000089 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 19:16:07 -0500 (EST) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CFBC15A65D411E_9BC_A4B3B_webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37276-STANDARD Received: from 50.46.150.41 by webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com (64.12.101.93) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 08 Jan 2013 19:16:05 -0500 Message-Id: <8CFBC15A64EF8E4-9BC-33375@webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [50.46.150.41] Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 19:16:05 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1357690567; bh=4f6iGTdqid1wpqOsUn3iFO/nGrX7H+7ShR40TC5ZgTQ=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=wAQWnQKO5JvkadeqGHIHq2/Oa9GHxJYur0dF4uhduoGg27sIS6CE6MoQ4dJDh2Vse j8ttqg2glDmpIgzlNRN0fCBHH6eMFAVbaKM0E7tzYkdkBgPsSEn1QA9F7QTcT2seFH 1lh563CThjIe28X4etxZ6+/QFBP0GzkSnFbtvr1A= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:514863744:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c950ecb6c73a48 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CFBC15A65D411E_9BC_A4B3B_webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Oh yeah, I did also have my ECU upgraded in the last two years, made a huge= difference. Maybe you should get that done first to rule that out as a fac= tor.=20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradburry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:56 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup I don=E2=80=99t know what is early. The lastupgrade was Nov =E2=80=9907. = What do I need to do to get the new upgrade installed? =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] OnBehal= f Of Tracy Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 201312:00 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquiphose changed to hiccup =20 Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version is complete. Don't knowwhat vintage = your EC2 is but the early ones did not have O2 sensor inputs andcan't take = advantage of the closed loop modes. That is unrelated to thepossible cause= of the hiccup though. =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" wro= te: I went thru and cleaned up all my grounds andit seems to have fixed everyth= ing with the exception of the hiccup. =20 =20 Tracy, have you finished the bench testing on the EC-2 upgradeyet? I would= really like to try and see if that will fix thisproblem. My wife really d= oesn=E2=80=99t like that hiccup! =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Beha= lf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Saturday, December 08, 20123:41 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquiphose =20 I currently have a separate ground fromeach of the batteries to a Nuckolls = =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D ground point. Everything inside the cockpi= t grounds here. Also the fuel pumps andinjectors ground here. The coils g= round on the center iron. Thereare separate grounds from each battery to t= he PSRU plate on each side of thestarter. I have considered bringing two s= eparate grounds from the centeriron to the batteries just in case there is = resistance getting from the centeriron to the PSRU plate. I am also taking all my grounds apart tocheck for corrosion or anything tha= t seems that it might not be properly bonded. =20 I am doing this for two reasons. One, I am still getting that occasional = =E2=80=9Chiccup=E2=80=9D that is violent enough toshake the plane when it h= appens. It is bad enough that I am concernedthat it might be bad for the p= in in the PSRU. I am also wondering if itcould be the PSRU that has sheare= d the pin and is slipping? Someone onhere had that happen and I would real= ly appreciate a description of what thatsounded and felt like and also how = I could make certain that is not theproblem. No, I don=E2=80=99t want to d= ismantle the PSRU to check it unless thatseems to be the only way to check = it. =20 Also, Tracy,how are you progressing on getting the upgrade for the EC-2 tha= t might fix thishiccup if that is what it is? I think you had it done for = the EC-3 andwere working on the EC-2 implementation?? =20 The second reason for going thru thegrounds is that I am having an intermit= tent problem with my GTX327 transponder,MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak auto= pilot shutting down. This seems tohappen more often when I key the mike on= my GNS430W radio, but keying the mikeis not required. It sometimes happen= s just out of the blue. Alsomost of the time, only the transponder shuts o= ff. Only sometimes does themoving map and autopilot join in the fun. =20 Everybody tells me that it sounds like aground issue, hence I am going thru= the ground system.=20 =20 I welcome all opinions and input! =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Beha= lf Of Tracy Sent: Saturday, December 08, 201210:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquiphose =20 Tying the engine partstogether should not be necessary but you still need a= separate ground frombattery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionic= s groundpoint. Also separate feeds from +12 battery to starter/alternator= and avionics. You can Use the starter/alternator feed for coils,injectors = & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus. Tracy=20 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry w= rote: Several months ago, after a discussion with Tracy,I ran grounding straps fr= om each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of thestarter mount. I had= previously had the grounding strap running betweenthe center iron and the = =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D grounding block on the firewall. Tracy sug= gested I moveit so the starter amps would not get into the grounding block. Now I have the igniters grounded on the center iron and I amconsidering run= ning a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries ortrying to tie e= ach section of the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich=E2=80=9D together by running a = wirebetween them. This would to be certain that the ground is good on thei= gniters. =20 Any opinions on this?? =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Beha= lf Of Andrew Martin Sent: Friday, December 07, 20128:29 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquiphose =20 Bill As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery di= rectto your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine wi= thoutproblems. I remember Tracy posting on thisissue years ago just a bit hard to find in = the archives now. Andrew =20 On Sat, Dec 8,2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: Bill,=20 =20 You may want tocheck your engine ground. Starter current may be causing th= is. =20 Mark S.=20 =20 =20 On Fri, Dec 7,2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry wro= te: I am working oncleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burnt like it had an electrical spark exit from it. I have not found anythingin the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have jumped?? Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? Do I have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is grounded to the engine. Bill B -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html =20 =20 =20 =20 ----------MB_8CFBC15A65D411E_9BC_A4B3B_webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Oh yeah, I did also have my= ECU upgraded in the last two years, made a huge difference. Maybe you shou= ld get that done first to rule that out as a factor. 

Brian Trubee


-----= Original Message-----
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 8, 2013 1:56 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup

I don=E2=80=99t= know what is early.  The last upgrade was Nov =E2=80=9907.  What do I need to do to get the new upgr= ade installed?
 
Bill B
 
From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancairon= line.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2= 013 12:00 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose changed to hiccup
 
Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version is complete= .  Don't know what vintage your EC2 is but the early ones did not have O2 sensor inputs a= nd can't take advantage of the closed loop modes.  That is unrelated to t= he possible cause of the hiccup though.
 
Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I went thru and= cleaned up all my grounds and it seems to have fixed everything with the exception of the hiccup.  <= /span>
 
Tracy<= /font>, have you finished the bench test= ing on the EC-2 upgrade yet?  I would really like to try and see if that will fix this problem.  My wife really doesn=E2=80=99t like that hiccup!
 
Bill B
 
From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry<= br> Sent: Saturday, December 08,= 2012 3:41 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraf= t
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose
 
I currently hav= e a separate ground from each of the batteries to a Nuckolls =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D ground= point.  Everything inside the cockpit grounds here.  Also the fuel pumps and injectors ground here.  The coils ground on the center iron.  The= re are separate grounds from each battery to the PSRU plate on each side of th= e starter.  I have considered bringing two separate grounds from the cen= ter iron to the batteries just in case there is resistance getting from the cen= ter iron to the PSRU plate.
I am also takin= g all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anything that seems that it might not be properly bo= nded.
 
I am doing this= for two reasons.  One, I am still getting that occasional =E2=80=9Chiccup=E2=80=9D that is vi= olent enough to shake the plane when it happens.  It is bad enough that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the PSRU.  I am also wondering if = it could be the PSRU that has sheared the pin and is slipping?  Someone o= n here had that happen and I would really appreciate a description of what th= at sounded and felt like and also how I could make certain that is not the problem.  No, I don=E2=80=99t want to dismantle the PSRU to check it u= nless that seems to be the only way to check it.
 
Also, Tracy, how are you progressing on getting the upgrade for the EC-2 that might fix = this hiccup if that is what it is?  I think you had it done for the EC-3 an= d were working on the EC-2 implementation??
 
The second reas= on for going thru the grounds is that I am having an intermittent problem with my GTX327 transpon= der, MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak autopilot shutting down.  This seems to happen more often when I key the mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying the m= ike is not required.  It sometimes happens just out of the blue.  Als= o most of the time, only the transponder shuts off.  Only sometimes does= the moving map and autopilot join in the fun.
 
Everybody tells= me that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going thru the ground system.
 
I welcome all o= pinions and input!
 
Bill B
 
From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Saturday, December 08,= 2012 10:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraf= t
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose
 
Tying the engine pa= rts together should not be necessary but you still need a separate ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionics ground point.   Also separate feeds from +12 battery to starter/alternat= or and avionics.  You can Use the starter/alternator feed for coils, injectors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus.

Tracy
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry &= lt;bbradburry@bellsouth.net= > wrote:
Several months ago, after a d= iscussion with Tracy, I ran grounding straps from each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of= the starter mount.  I had previously had the grounding strap running betwe= en the center iron and the =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D grounding block on= the firewall.  Tracy suggested I move it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding block.
Now I have the igniters groun= ded on the center iron and I am considering running a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to tie each section of the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich=E2=80=9D togethe= r by running a wire between them.  This would to be certain that the ground is good on the igniters.
 
Any opinions on this??=
 
Bill B
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:= flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Martin Sent: Friday, December 07, 2= 012 8:29 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraf= t
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose
 
Bill

As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery di= rect to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine withou= t problems.
I remember Tracy posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to find in the archives now.

Andrew
 
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle <mst= eitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill, 
 
You may want to check your engine ground.  Starter current may be causing this.=
 
Mark S. 
 
  
On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bells= outh.net> wrote:
I am working on cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have
several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burnt=
like it had an electrical spark exit from it.  I have not found anythi= ng in
the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have
jumped??

Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it?  Do= I
have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is
grounded to the engine.

Bill B


--
Homepage:  htt= p://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/li= sts/flyrotary/List.html
 
 
 
----------MB_8CFBC15A65D411E_9BC_A4B3B_webmail-m010.sysops.aol.com--