X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost03.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.103] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6001643 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:55:12 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.103; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-98-85-145-180.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.145.180]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc03) with SMTP id <20130108215436H0300761tse>; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 21:54:36 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.145.180] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 16:54:37 -0500 Message-ID: <24564F2B37C74BFA8DA65B0F551BA498@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006A_01CDEDC0.D8734870" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 Thread-Index: Ac3tu3ytT0/HHOrqRompRzXnGXlXFQALvRrw This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01CDEDC0.D8734870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am getting a higher frequency of the hiccups. Some are pretty violent. My wife says she can feel the side of the fuselage against her leg when it happens. I have not had a passenger yet that did not ask "What was that!?" Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 11:16 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup Bill, Last month I flew two three hour flights on back to back days. For the first time I experienced a few hiccup events. I would estimate 3-4 on each day. On the first day my passenger didn't notice anything but on the return flight he said "what was that!" That event was a little stronger than the others. I considered switching controllers but decided the events were too infrequent for testing. The engine was operating in a colder condition than normal. OAT at altitude was between 17 and 32F. At times the oil and water were in the low 130's. Need a smaller exit with cowl flaps. Bobby From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 7:38 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup I went thru and cleaned up all my grounds and it seems to have fixed everything with the exception of the hiccup. Tracy, have you finished the bench testing on the EC-2 upgrade yet? I would really like to try and see if that will fix this problem. My wife really doesn't like that hiccup! Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 3:41 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose I currently have a separate ground from each of the batteries to a Nuckolls "forest of tabs" ground point. Everything inside the cockpit grounds here. Also the fuel pumps and injectors ground here. The coils ground on the center iron. There are separate grounds from each battery to the PSRU plate on each side of the starter. I have considered bringing two separate grounds from the center iron to the batteries just in case there is resistance getting from the center iron to the PSRU plate. I am also taking all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anything that seems that it might not be properly bonded. I am doing this for two reasons. One, I am still getting that occasional "hiccup" that is violent enough to shake the plane when it happens. It is bad enough that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the PSRU. I am also wondering if it could be the PSRU that has sheared the pin and is slipping? Someone on here had that happen and I would really appreciate a description of what that sounded and felt like and also how I could make certain that is not the problem. No, I don't want to dismantle the PSRU to check it unless that seems to be the only way to check it. Also, Tracy, how are you progressing on getting the upgrade for the EC-2 that might fix this hiccup if that is what it is? I think you had it done for the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 implementation?? The second reason for going thru the grounds is that I am having an intermittent problem with my GTX327 transponder, MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak autopilot shutting down. This seems to happen more often when I key the mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying the mike is not required. It sometimes happens just out of the blue. Also most of the time, only the transponder shuts off. Only sometimes does the moving map and autopilot join in the fun. Everybody tells me that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going thru the ground system. I welcome all opinions and input! Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 10:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose Tying the engine parts together should not be necessary but you still need a separate ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionics ground point. Also separate feeds from +12 battery to starter/alternator and avionics. You can Use the starter/alternator feed for coils, injectors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus. Tracy On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: Several months ago, after a discussion with Tracy, I ran grounding straps from each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the starter mount. I had previously had the grounding strap running between the center iron and the "forest of tabs" grounding block on the firewall. Tracy suggested I move it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding block. Now I have the igniters grounded on the center iron and I am considering running a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to tie each section of the engine "sandwich" together by running a wire between them. This would to be certain that the ground is good on the igniters. Any opinions on this?? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Martin Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:29 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose Bill As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery direct to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine without problems. I remember Tracy posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to find in the archives now. Andrew On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: Bill, You may want to check your engine ground. Starter current may be causing this. Mark S. On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: I am working on cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burnt like it had an electrical spark exit from it. I have not found anything in the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have jumped?? Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? Do I have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is grounded to the engine. Bill B -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_006A_01CDEDC0.D8734870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am getting a higher frequency of = the hiccups.  Some are pretty violent.  My wife says she can feel = the side of the fuselage against her leg when it happens.  I have not had a passenger yet that did not ask “What was = that!?”

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Tuesday, January = 08, 2013 11:16 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup

 

Bill,

 <= /o:p>

Last month = I flew two three hour flights on back to back days. For the first time I = experienced a few hiccup events. I would estimate 3-4 on each day. On the first day my passenger didn’t notice anything but on the return flight he said = “what was that!” That event was a little stronger than the others. I = considered switching controllers but decided the events were too infrequent for = testing. The engine was operating in a colder condition than normal. OAT at = altitude was between 17 and 32F. At times the oil and water were in the low = 130’s. Need a smaller exit with cowl flaps.

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

Bobby

 <= /o:p>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Tuesday, January = 08, 2013 7:38 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup

 

I went thru and cleaned up all my = grounds and it seems to have fixed everything with the exception of the = hiccup. 

 

Tracy, have you finished the bench testing on the EC-2 upgrade yet?  I would really like to try and see if that will fix this problem.  My wife really doesn’t like that = hiccup!

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net] On Behalf Of Bill = Bradburry
Sent: Saturday, December = 08, 2012 3:41 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Aeroquip hose

 

I currently have a separate ground = from each of the batteries to a Nuckolls “forest of tabs” ground point.  Everything inside the cockpit grounds here.  Also the = fuel pumps and injectors ground here.  The coils ground on the center iron.  There are separate grounds from each battery to the PSRU = plate on each side of the starter.  I have considered bringing two separate = grounds from the center iron to the batteries just in case there is resistance = getting from the center iron to the PSRU plate.

I am also taking all my grounds = apart to check for corrosion or anything that seems that it might not be properly bonded.

 

I am doing this for two = reasons.  One, I am still getting that occasional “hiccup” that is = violent enough to shake the plane when it happens.  It is bad enough that I = am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the PSRU.  I am also = wondering if it could be the PSRU that has sheared the pin and is slipping?  = Someone on here had that happen and I would really appreciate a description of = what that sounded and felt like and also how I could make certain that is not = the problem.  No, I don’t want to dismantle the PSRU to check it = unless that seems to be the only way to check it.

 

Also, Tracy, how are you progressing on = getting the upgrade for the EC-2 that might fix this hiccup if that is what it = is?  I think you had it done for the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 = implementation??

 

The second reason for going thru = the grounds is that I am having an intermittent problem with my GTX327 = transponder, MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak autopilot shutting down.  This seems = to happen more often when I key the mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying = the mike is not required.  It sometimes happens just out of the blue.  = Also most of the time, only the transponder shuts off.  Only sometimes = does the moving map and autopilot join in the fun.

 

Everybody tells me that it sounds = like a ground issue, hence I am going thru the ground system. =

 

I welcome all opinions and = input!

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Saturday, December = 08, 2012 10:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Aeroquip hose

 

Tying the = engine parts together should not be necessary but you still need a separate ground = from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionics ground point.   Also separate feeds from +12 battery to = starter/alternator and avionics.  You can Use the starter/alternator feed for coils, injectors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus.

Tracy

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Several months ago, after a discussion with Tracy, I ran grounding straps from = each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the starter mount.  I = had previously had the grounding strap running between the center iron and the = “forest of tabs” grounding block on the firewall.  Tracy suggested I move it so the = starter amps would not get into the grounding block.

Now I have the igniters grounded on the center iron and I am considering running a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries = or trying to tie each section of the engine “sandwich” together = by running a wire between them.  This would to be certain that the = ground is good on the igniters.

 

Any opinions on this??

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Andrew = Martin
Sent: Friday, December = 07, 2012 8:29 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Aeroquip hose

 

Bill

As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery = direct to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine = without problems.
I remember Tracy posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to find in the archives = now.

Andrew

 

On = Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> = wrote:

Bill, 

 

You = may want to check your engine ground.  Starter current may be causing = this.

 

Mark = S. 

 

  

On = Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry = <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I am = working on cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have
several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be = burnt
like it had an electrical spark exit from it.  I have not found = anything in
the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would = have
jumped??

Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? =  Do I
have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe = static?
The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter = that
has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which = is
grounded to the engine.

Bill B


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml

 

 

 

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