X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6001495 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 15:09:30 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.42; envelope-from=ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.204]) by imr-ma04.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id AE1F01C00023E for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 15:08:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-dsd004b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dsd004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.253.141]) by mtaomg-db06.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 68518E00008B for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 15:08:55 -0500 (EST) From: ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Full-name: ARGOLDMAN Message-ID: <14a39.7894d32f.3e1dd6d6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 15:08:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_14a39.7894d32f.3e1dd6d6_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 168 X-Originating-IP: [64.12.7.133] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1357675735; bh=daCoUqNsTMfqwY2ls9Pbvn4fWOcD+P8lGfTgkShrpwE=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=SqP1zbdshY4y8AVViJb4Re7Ny+f3tXnocgSUghCcFT8oZFc7O2/zALRq8M/nnmmaa 1kWmgrpNw1US4TUbF1gfLs4g2izPI+XdaekNQ3sZpxs6ijCp5EnAJQ+5m5jp0DVH0o 755SQ1OX0Q7BgICd2zBGe3Tidgsm+6rgk9BP/tGE= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:512790592:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33cc50ec7cd75e6c --part1_14a39.7894d32f.3e1dd6d6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en forget the previous misplaced e-mail--please =20 ma I desufnoc =20 I Probably be older. =20 How do I know if I am open or closed?? =20 What serial # of EM3 and EC3 should I look for-- or send me a PM with my = =20 stats=20 =20 Of course, If I use 100LL doesn't that contaminate the O2 sensor and after = =20 a short period defeat its function and 'open' the closed loop =20 =20 In a message dated 1/8/2013 12:55:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, =20 rwstracy@gmail.com writes: In the early days (god. I'm feeling old) there was no EC3 so yes, the O2= =20 sensor was connected to the EM2/3 (and it still can be). But, if you have= =20 the closed loop version of the EC3 (or EC2 with the O2 input) you should= =20 connect it to the O2 sensor. And if your EM3 has the latest software =20 (updated after the EC3 closed loop software was developed) there is a =20 configuration bit that can be set to tell it to get it's O2 information fro= m the EC2/3=20 so that it doesn't have to be connected directly to the O2 sensor to read= =20 mixture. If the EM3 is not updated, connect both the EC3 and the EM3 to= =20 the O2 sensor. If you were not confused before, I'm sure you would be now. : ) =20 Tracy On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 1:19 PM, <_ARGOLDMAN@aol.com_=20 (mailto:ARGOLDMAN@aol.com) > wrote: Tracy, =20 As usual, I am confused. =20 I am in the process of finishing the wiring of my EC-3 and EM-3. Without= =20 the diagram in front of me, my memory says that the O2 sensor is connected= =20 to the EM-3 for tuning, not the EC-3. Am I mistaken or was the -2=20 different, in this respect to the -3???? =20 Rich =20 =20 =20 =20 In a message dated 1/8/2013 11:00:49 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 _rwstracy@gmail.com_ (mailto:rwstracy@gmail.com) writes: =20 =20 Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version is complete. Don't know what=20 vintage your EC2 is but the early ones did not have O2 sensor inputs and c= an't=20 take advantage of the closed loop modes. That is unrelated to the possibl= e=20 cause of the hiccup though. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" <_bbradburry@bellsouth.net_=20 (mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net) > wrote: =20 I went thru and cleaned up all my grounds and it seems to have fixed=20 everything with the exception of the hiccup. =20 Tracy, have you finished the bench testing on the EC-2 upgrade yet? I=20 would really like to try and see if that will fix this problem. My wife= =20 really doesn=E2=80=99t like that hiccup!=20 Bill B=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [_mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 3:41 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose I currently have a separate ground from each of the batteries to a=20 Nuckolls =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D ground point. Everything inside= the cockpit grounds =20 here. Also the fuel pumps and injectors ground here. The coils ground on= =20 the center iron. There are separate grounds from each battery to the PSRU= =20 plate on each side of the starter. I have considered bringing two separat= e=20 grounds from the center iron to the batteries just in case there is=20 resistance getting from the center iron to the PSRU plate.=20 I am also taking all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anything= =20 that seems that it might not be properly bonded.=20 I am doing this for two reasons. One, I am still getting that occasional = =E2=80=9C hiccup=E2=80=9D that is violent enough to shake the plane when it happens.= It is =20 bad enough that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the =20 PSRU. I am also wondering if it could be the PSRU that has sheared the pi= n=20 and is slipping? Someone on here had that happen and I would really=20 appreciate a description of what that sounded and felt like and also how I= could=20 make certain that is not the problem. No, I don=E2=80=99t want to dismant= le the PSRU=20 to check it unless that seems to be the only way to check it.=20 Also, Tracy, how are you progressing on getting the upgrade for the EC-2= =20 that might fix this hiccup if that is what it is? I think you had it done= =20 for the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 implementation??=20 The second reason for going thru the grounds is that I am having an=20 intermittent problem with my GTX327 transponder, MFD150 moving map, and Tr= uTrak =20 autopilot shutting down. This seems to happen more often when I key the= =20 mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying the mike is not required. It sometim= es=20 happens just out of the blue. Also most of the time, only the transponder= =20 shuts off. Only sometimes does the moving map and autopilot join in the = =20 fun.=20 Everybody tells me that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going=20 thru the ground system. =20 I welcome all opinions and input!=20 Bill B=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [_mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] On Behalf Of Tracy Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 10:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose Tying the engine parts together should not be necessary but you still need= =20 a separate ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your=20 avionics ground point. Also separate feeds from +12 battery to =20 starter/alternator and avionics. You can Use the starter/alternator feed = for coils,=20 injectors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus. Tracy =20 =20 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry=20 <_bbradburry@bellsouth.net_ (mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net) > wrote:=20 =20 =20 Several months ago, after a discussion with Tracy, I ran grounding straps= =20 from each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the starter mount. I= =20 had previously had the grounding strap running between the center iron and= =20 the =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D grounding block on the firewall. Tra= cy suggested I =20 move it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding block.=20 Now I have the igniters grounded on the center iron and I am considering= =20 running a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to= =20 tie each section of the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich=E2=80=9D together by runn= ing a wire between=20 them. This would to be certain that the ground is good on the igniters.= =20 Any opinions on this??=20 Bill B=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] On Behalf Of Andrew Martin Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:29 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose Bill As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery= =20 direct to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engin= e=20 without problems. I remember Tracy posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to find= =20 in the archives now. Andrew=20 =20 =20 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle <_msteitle@gmail.com_=20 (mailto:msteitle@gmail.com) > wrote:=20 Bill, =20 =20 =20 You may want to check your engine ground. Starter current may be causing = =20 this. =20 =20 Mark S.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry <_bbradburry@bellsouth.net_= =20 (mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net) > wrote:=20 I am working on cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burn= t like it had an electrical spark exit from it. I have not found anything i= n the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have jumped?? Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? Do I have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is grounded to the engine. Bill B -- Homepage: _http://www.flyrotary.com/_ (http://www.flyrotary.com/)=20 Archive and UnSub: =20 _http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html_ (http://mail.l= ancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html)=20 =3D --part1_14a39.7894d32f.3e1dd6d6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
forget the previous   misplaced e-mail--please
 
ma I desufnoc
 
I Probably be older.
 
How do I know if I am open or closed??
 
What serial # of EM3 and EC3 should I look for-- or send me a PM with = my=20 stats
 
Of course, If I use 100LL doesn't that contaminate the O2 sensor and a= fter=20 a short period defeat its function and 'open' the closed loop
 
In a message dated 1/8/2013 12:55:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 rwstracy@gmail.com writes:
= In the=20 early days (god. I'm feeling old) there was no EC3 so yes, the O2 sensor = was=20 connected to the EM2/3 (and it still can be).  But, if you have the= =20 closed loop version of the EC3 (or EC2 with the O2 input) you should conn= ect=20 it to the O2 sensor.   And if your EM3 has the latest software= =20 (updated after the EC3 closed loop software was developed) there is a=20 configuration bit that can be set to tell it to get it's O2 information f= rom=20 the EC2/3 so that it doesn't have to be connected directly to the O2 sens= or to=20 read mixture.  If the EM3 is not updated,  connect both the EC3= and=20 the EM3 to the O2 sensor.

If you were not confused before, I'm sur= e you=20 would be now.  : )  

Tracy

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 1:19 PM, = <ARGOLDMAN@aol.com> wrote:
Tracy,
 
As usual, I am confused.
 
I am in the process of finishing the wiring of my EC-3 and EM-3.= =20 Without the diagram in front of me, my memory says that the O2 sensor i= s=20 connected to the EM-3 for tuning, not the EC-3. Am I mistaken or  = was=20 the -2 different, in this respect to the -3????
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 1/8/2013 11:00:49 A.M. Central Standard Time, <= A=20 title=3Dmailto:rwstracy@gmail.com href=3D"mailto:rwstracy@gmail.com"=20 target=3D_blank>rwstracy@gmail.com writes:
Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version is complete.  Don't k= now=20 what vintage your EC2 is but the early ones did not have O2 sensor in= puts=20 and can't take advantage of the closed loop modes.  That is unre= lated=20 to the possible cause of the hiccup though.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I went t= hru and=20 cleaned up all my grounds and it seems to have fixed everything wit= h the=20 exception of the hiccup. 

<= U> 

= Tracy, have y= ou=20 finished the bench testing on the EC-2 upgrade yet?  I would r= eally=20 like to try and see if that will fix this problem.  My wife re= ally=20 doesn=E2=80=99t like that hiccup!

<= U> 

Bill=20 B

<= U> 

=

F= rom:= =20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill=20 Bradburry
Sent:= =20 Saturday, December 08, 2012 3:41 PM
To: Rotary motors in= =20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip=20 hose

 

I curren= tly=20 have a separate ground from each of the batteries to a Nuckolls =E2= =80=9Cforest=20 of tabs=E2=80=9D ground point.  Everything inside the cockpit = grounds=20 here.  Also the fuel pumps and injectors ground here.  Th= e=20 coils ground on the center iron.  There are separate grounds f= rom=20 each battery to the PSRU plate on each side of the starter.  I= have=20 considered bringing two separate grounds from the center iron to th= e=20 batteries just in case there is resistance getting from the center = iron=20 to the PSRU plate.

I am als= o=20 taking all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anything that= =20 seems that it might not be properly=20 bonded.

<= U> 

I am doi= ng this=20 for two reasons.  One, I am still getting that occasional =E2= =80=9Chiccup=E2=80=9D=20 that is violent enough to shake the plane when it happens.  It= is=20 bad enough that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in = the=20 PSRU.  I am also wondering if it could be the PSRU that has sh= eared=20 the pin and is slipping?  Someone on here had that happen and = I=20 would really appreciate a description of what that sounded and felt= like=20 and also how I could make certain that is not the problem.  No= , I=20 don=E2=80=99t want to dismantle the PSRU to check it unless that se= ems to be the=20 only way to check it.

<= U> 

Also,=20 Tracy, how are you progressing on getti= ng=20 the upgrade for the EC-2 that might fix this hiccup if that is what= it=20 is?  I think you had it done for the EC-3 and were working on = the=20 EC-2 implementation??

<= U> 

The seco= nd=20 reason for going thru the grounds is that I am having an intermitte= nt=20 problem with my GTX327 transponder, MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak= =20 autopilot shutting down.  This seems to happen more often when= I=20 key the mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying the mike is not=20 required.  It sometimes happens just out of the blue.  Al= so=20 most of the time, only the transponder shuts off.  Only someti= mes=20 does the moving map and autopilot join in the=20 fun.

<= U> 

Everybod= y tells=20 me that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going thru the gr= ound=20 system.

<= U> 

I welcom= e all=20 opinions and input!

<= U> 

Bill=20 B

<= U> 

=

F= rom:= =20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of=20 Tracy
Sent: Saturday, December 08,= 2012=20 10:56 AM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip=20 hose

 

Tying the = engine=20 parts together should not be necessary but you still need a separat= e=20 ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionics= =20 ground point.   Also separate feeds from +12 battery to= =20 starter/alternator and avionics.  You can Use the=20 starter/alternator feed for coils, injectors & fuel pumps to ke= ep=20 noise down on the avionics bus.

Tracy=20

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, B= ill=20 Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>=20 wrote:

Several = months=20 ago, after a discussion with Tracy, I r= an=20 grounding straps from each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides = of=20 the starter mount.  I had previously had the grounding strap= =20 running between the center iron and the =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2= =80=9D grounding block=20 on the firewall.  Tracy suggested = I=20 move it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding=20 block.

Now I ha= ve the=20 igniters grounded on the center iron and I am considering running a= =20 ground strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to tie= each=20 section of the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich=E2=80=9D together by runnin= g a wire between=20 them.  This would to be certain that the ground is good on the= =20 igniters.

<= /FONT> 

Any opin= ions on=20 this??

<= /FONT> 

Bill=20 B

<= /FONT> 

=

F= rom:= =20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Andrew=20 Martin
Sent: Fri= day,=20 December 07, 2012 8:29 PM
To: Rotary motors in= =20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip=20 hose

 

Bill

As Mark says + make sure you = have a=20 ground cable/strap connected battery direct to your starter. Do not= =20 expect starter to ground through your engine without problems.
I= =20 remember Tracy posting on this issue ye= ars=20 ago just a bit hard to find in the archives=20 now.

Andrew

 

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Stei= tle=20 <msteitle@gmail.com>=20 wrote:

Bill, 

 

You may want to check your engine ground.= =20  Starter current may be causing=20 this.

 

Mark=20 S. 

 

  <= /P>

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bi= ll=20 Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>=20 wrote:

I am working on cleaning up my ground sys= tem and=20 I noticed that I have
several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided f= uel=20 hose that appears to be burnt
like it had an electrical spark ex= it=20 from it.  I have not found anything in
the vicinity of thes= e=20 places that look like where the spark? would have
jumped??
Has=20 anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? &nbs= p;Do=20 I
have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this may= be=20 static?
The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end= to a=20 filter that
has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the= fuel=20 rail which is
grounded to the engine.

Bill=20 B


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=  =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Li= st.html

 

 

 

=3D

--part1_14a39.7894d32f.3e1dd6d6_boundary--