X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qc0-f176.google.com ([209.85.216.176] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTPS id 6001360 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 13:54:57 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.176; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by mail-qc0-f176.google.com with SMTP id n41so977566qco.7 for ; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 10:54:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=+XrzKeWhUhF0LcqynqMRi3/JCVFVSZ1XELTuqB2e1sg=; b=HAD7HoN77vGkJEeyTEx1w4oU49XgIEJaVOrJovW4Y+8TFhyQ6R/m5T6hNj7duCcuqj 0RjX4cL1Tt2KIK2HZQDW59UG8vw2Jl2SPJgL3ksem5WShUHWBNpJ6T3V2tHIQGk9AMt7 Q5qm7/pia8yl2Bn+69jWE1e8E6pzMGhZNa48xNwaUeKv46jrAi2HgH/Y+N5ggFoTfzGv ES9Lr6sILdw9ie2fsKknnaJbOGy/L80sIj5ieGfLbL/LlyQ89G7KXo89eBB367786IcR K2igzPJaWJtU53XKtf/RW/6YMm2bMtxZJpinRyrX/8YTVHjzY4Y9gUKDZntnvijlb9L9 sm5g== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.49.127.15 with SMTP id nc15mr55898246qeb.61.1357671262954; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 10:54:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.116.147 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 10:54:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 13:54:22 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6dc3ac59a4e504d2cb79d0 --047d7b6dc3ac59a4e504d2cb79d0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the early days (god. I'm feeling old) there was no EC3 so yes, the O2 sensor was connected to the EM2/3 (and it still can be). But, if you have the closed loop version of the EC3 (or EC2 with the O2 input) you should connect it to the O2 sensor. And if your EM3 has the latest software (updated after the EC3 closed loop software was developed) there is a configuration bit that can be set to tell it to get it's O2 information from the EC2/3 so that it doesn't have to be connected directly to the O2 sensor to read mixture. If the EM3 is not updated, connect both the EC3 and the EM3 to the O2 sensor. If you were not confused before, I'm sure you would be now. : ) Tracy On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 1:19 PM, wrote: > ** > Tracy, > > As usual, I am confused. > > I am in the process of finishing the wiring of my EC-3 and EM-3. Without > the diagram in front of me, my memory says that the O2 sensor is connecte= d > to the EM-3 for tuning, not the EC-3. Am I mistaken or was the -2 > different, in this respect to the -3???? > > Rich > > In a message dated 1/8/2013 11:00:49 A.M. Central Standard Time, > rwstracy@gmail.com writes: > > Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version is complete. Don't know what > vintage your EC2 is but the early ones did not have O2 sensor inputs and > can't take advantage of the closed loop modes. That is unrelated to the > possible cause of the hiccup though. > > Tracy > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" > wrote: > > ****** > > I went thru and cleaned up all my grounds and it seems to have fixed > everything with the exception of the hiccup. **** > > ** ** > > ****Tracy****, have you finished the bench testing on the EC-2 upgrade > yet? I would really like to try and see if that will fix this problem. = My > wife really doesn=92t like that hiccup!**** > > ** ** > > Bill B**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ] > *On Behalf Of *Bill Bradburry > *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2012 3:41 PM > *To:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose**** > > ** ** > > I currently have a separate ground from each of the batteries to a > Nuckolls =93forest of tabs=94 ground point. Everything inside the cockpi= t > grounds here. Also the fuel pumps and injectors ground here. The coils > ground on the center iron. There are separate grounds from each battery = to > the PSRU plate on each side of the starter. I have considered bringing t= wo > separate grounds from the center iron to the batteries just in case there > is resistance getting from the center iron to the PSRU plate.**** > > I am also taking all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anything > that seems that it might not be properly bonded.**** > > ** ** > > I am doing this for two reasons. One, I am still getting that occasional > =93hiccup=94 that is violent enough to shake the plane when it happens. = It is > bad enough that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the > PSRU. I am also wondering if it could be the PSRU that has sheared the p= in > and is slipping? Someone on here had that happen and I would really > appreciate a description of what that sounded and felt like and also how = I > could make certain that is not the problem. No, I don=92t want to disman= tle > the PSRU to check it unless that seems to be the only way to check it.***= * > > ** ** > > Also, ****Tracy****, how are you progressing on getting the upgrade for > the EC-2 that might fix this hiccup if that is what it is? I think you h= ad > it done for the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 implementation??**** > > ** ** > > The second reason for going thru the grounds is that I am having an > intermittent problem with my GTX327 transponder, MFD150 moving map, and > TruTrak autopilot shutting down. This seems to happen more often when I > key the mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying the mike is not required. I= t > sometimes happens just out of the blue. Also most of the time, only the > transponder shuts off. Only sometimes does the moving map and autopilot > join in the fun.**** > > ** ** > > Everybody tells me that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going > thru the ground system. **** > > ** ** > > I welcome all opinions and input!**** > > ** ** > > Bill B**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ] > *On Behalf Of *****Tracy**** > *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2012 10:56 AM > *To:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose**** > > ** ** > > Tying the engine parts together should not be necessary but you still nee= d > a separate ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your > avionics ground point. Also separate feeds from +12 battery to > starter/alternator and avionics. You can Use the starter/alternator feed > for coils, injectors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus. > > ****Tracy**** **** > > On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, **Bill Bradburry **< > bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:**** > > Several months ago, after a discussion with ****Tracy****, I ran > grounding straps from each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the > starter mount. I had previously had the grounding strap running between > the center iron and the =93forest of tabs=94 grounding block on the firew= all. > ****Tracy**** suggested I move it so the starter amps would not get into > the grounding block.**** > > Now I have the igniters grounded on the center iron and I am considering > running a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to > tie each section of the engine =93sandwich=94 together by running a wire > between them. This would to be certain that the ground is good on the > igniters.**** > > **** > > Any opinions on this??**** > > **** > > Bill B**** > > **** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ] > *On Behalf Of *Andrew Martin > *Sent:* Friday, December 07, 2012 8:29 PM > *To:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose**** > > **** > > Bill > > As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery > direct to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engi= ne > without problems. > I remember ****Tracy**** posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard > to find in the archives now. > > Andrew**** > > **** > > On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle wrote:*= * > ** > > Bill, **** > > **** > > You may want to check your engine ground. Starter current may be causing > this.**** > > **** > > Mark S. **** > > **** > > **** > > On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, **Bill Bradburry **< > bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:**** > > I am working on cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have > several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be bur= nt > like it had an electrical spark exit from it. I have not found anything = in > the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have > jumped?? > > Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? Do I > have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? > The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that > has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is > grounded to the engine. > > Bill B > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html**** > > **** > > **** > > ** ** > ****** > > =3D > > --047d7b6dc3ac59a4e504d2cb79d0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the early days (god. I'm feeling old) there was no EC3 so yes, the O= 2 sensor was connected to the EM2/3 (and it still can be).=A0 But, if you h= ave the closed loop version of the EC3 (or EC2 with the O2 input) you shoul= d connect it to the O2 sensor.=A0=A0 And if your EM3 has the latest softwar= e (updated after the EC3 closed loop software was developed) there is a con= figuration bit that can be set to tell it to get it's O2 information fr= om the EC2/3 so that it doesn't have to be connected directly to the O2= sensor to read mixture.=A0 If the EM3 is not updated,=A0 connect both the = EC3 and the EM3 to the O2 sensor.

If you were not confused before, I'm sure you would be now.=A0 : ) = =A0

Tracy

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at = 1:19 PM, <ARGOLDMAN@aol.com> wrote:
Tracy,
=A0
As usual, I am confused.
=A0
I am in the process of finishing the wiring of my EC-3 and EM-3. Witho= ut=20 the diagram in front of me, my memory says that the O2 sensor is connected = to=20 the EM-3 for tuning, not the EC-3. Am I mistaken or =A0was the -2 different= ,=20 in this respect to the -3????
=A0
Rich
=A0
In a message dated 1/8/2013 11:00:49 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 rwstracy@gmail.com<= /a> writes:
Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version is complete. =A0Don't know= what=20 vintage your EC2 is but the early ones did not have O2 sensor inputs and = can't=20 take advantage of the closed loop modes. =A0That is unrelated to the=20 possible cause of the hiccup though.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad
=20 =20 =20 =20

I went thru and=20 cleaned up all my grounds and it seems to have fixed everything with th= e=20 exception of the hiccup.=A0

=A0

Tracy<= /font>, have you finished=20 the bench testing on the EC-2 upgrade yet?=A0 I would really like to tr= y=20 and see if that will fix this problem.=A0 My wife really doesn=92t like= =20 that hiccup!

=A0

Bill=20 B

=A0

<= font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 On Behalf Of Bill=20 Bradburry
Sent: Satur= day,=20 December 08, 2012 3:41 PM
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subjec= t: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip=20 hose

=A0

I currently have a=20 separate ground from each of the batteries to a Nuckolls =93forest of t= abs=94=20 ground point.=A0 Everything inside the cockpit grounds here.=A0 Also=20 the fuel pumps and injectors ground here.=A0 The coils ground on the=20 center iron.=A0 There are separate grounds from each battery to the PSR= U=20 plate on each side of the starter.=A0 I have considered bringing two=20 separate grounds from the center iron to the batteries just in case the= re is=20 resistance getting from the center iron to the PSRU=20 plate.

I am also taking=20 all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anything that seems that= it=20 might not be properly bonded.

=A0

I am doing this for=20 two reasons.=A0 One, I am still getting that occasional =93hiccup=94 th= at is=20 violent enough to shake the plane when it happens.=A0 It is bad enough= =20 that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the PSRU.=A0 I = am=20 also wondering if it could be the PSRU that has sheared the pin and is= =20 slipping?=A0 Someone on here had that happen and I would really=20 appreciate a description of what that sounded and felt like and also ho= w I=20 could make certain that is not the problem.=A0 No, I don=92t want to=20 dismantle the PSRU to check it unless that seems to be the only way to = check=20 it.

=A0

Also, Tracy<= u>, how are you=20 progressing on getting the upgrade for the EC-2 that might fix this hic= cup=20 if that is what it is?=A0 I think you had it done for the EC-3 and were= =20 working on the EC-2 implementation??

=A0

The second reason=20 for going thru the grounds is that I am having an intermittent problem = with=20 my GTX327 transponder, MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak autopilot shuttin= g=20 down.=A0 This seems to happen more often when I key the mike on my=20 GNS430W radio, but keying the mike is not required.=A0 It sometimes=20 happens just out of the blue.=A0 Also most of the time, only the=20 transponder shuts off.=A0 Only sometimes does the moving map and=20 autopilot join in the fun.

=A0

Everybody tells me=20 that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going thru the ground sy= stem.=20

=A0

I welcome all=20 opinions and input!

=A0

Bill=20 B

=A0

<= font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 On Behalf Of <= /u>Tracy
Sent:<= /b> Saturday, December 08, 2012 10:56=20 AM
To: Rotary = motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip=20 hose

=A0

Tying the engine part= s=20 together should not be necessary but you still need a separate ground f= rom=20 battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionics ground=20 point.=A0=A0 Also separate feeds from +12 battery to=20 starter/alternator and avionics.=A0 You can Use the starter/alternator= =20 feed for coils, injectors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the=20 avionics bus.

Tracy

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradb= urry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net&g= t;=20 wrote:

Several months ago,=20 after a discussion with Tracy, I ran ground= ing straps from each=20 battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the starter mount.=A0 I had= =20 previously had the grounding strap running between the center iron and = the=20 =93forest of tabs=94 grounding block on the firewall.=A0 = Tracy suggested I move=20 it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding=20 block.

Now I have the=20 igniters grounded on the center iron and I am considering running a gro= und=20 strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to tie each secti= on of=20 the engine =93sandwich=94 together by running a wire between them.=A0 T= his=20 would to be certain that the ground is good on the=20 igniters.

=A0

Any opinions on=20 this??

=A0

Bill=20 B

=A0

=A0

Bill

As Mark=20 says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery direct= to=20 your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine witho= ut=20 problems.
I remember Tracy posting on th= is issue years ago just=20 a bit hard to find in the archives=20 now.

Andrew

=A0

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at=20 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>= =20 wrote:

Bill,=A0

=A0

You may want to check=20 your engine ground. =A0Starter current may be causing=20 this.

=A0

Mark=20 S.=A0

=A0

=A0=A0<= /span>

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at=20 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry <= bbradburry@bellsouth.net>=20 wrote:

I am working on=20 cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have
several, 3 or= 4,=20 places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burnt
like it h= ad an=20 electrical spark exit from it. =A0I have not found anything in
the= =20 vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would=20 have
jumped??

Has anyone seen something like this and what sh= ould=20 I do about it? =A0Do I
have a ground problem in the engine compartme= nt=20 or is this maybe static?
The hoses are covered by SS and are connect= ed on=20 one end to a filter that
has a ground strap on it and on the other e= nd to=20 the fuel rail which is
grounded to the engine.

Bill=20 B


--
Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.c= om/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/= lists/flyrotary/List.html

=A0

=A0

=A0

=3D

--047d7b6dc3ac59a4e504d2cb79d0--