X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.41] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6001338 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 13:33:01 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.41; envelope-from=ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.8]) by imr-ma03.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id AF0301C00100B for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 13:19:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-dsd004b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dsd004.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.253.141]) by mtaomg-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 2DB58E000096 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 13:19:26 -0500 (EST) From: ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Full-name: ARGOLDMAN Message-ID: <3d5a6.1887f1fb.3e1dbd2c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 13:19:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_3d5a6.1887f1fb.3e1dbd2c_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 56 X-Originating-IP: [24.14.64.174] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1357669167; bh=S14CJseaucCtdeIGpHH8IW7dKEYQnu0BQlXzxSrq1A8=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=f7rYCdD+GB/8I3ZTKVE7hZt5LOMHFiPRwatbTPUSGvQGtDOdQNb5BYUzfsGTACxjS SEF+GphgHT0VsTFNLvhvWiudjnaKKovTq3takjoA4oAZNqETEjXKK4GUxNEzPlAh/U RpTdgrNml/JWTYAB6t1Ca/LhoW1wilEnP0Kftf9Y= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:508753504:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d290850ec632e39df --part1_3d5a6.1887f1fb.3e1dbd2c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Tracy, =20 As usual, I am confused. =20 I am in the process of finishing the wiring of my EC-3 and EM-3. Without = =20 the diagram in front of me, my memory says that the O2 sensor is connected = to=20 the EM-3 for tuning, not the EC-3. Am I mistaken or was the -2 different,= =20 in this respect to the -3???? =20 Rich =20 =20 In a message dated 1/8/2013 11:00:49 A.M. Central Standard Time, =20 rwstracy@gmail.com writes: Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version is complete. Don't know what =20 vintage your EC2 is but the early ones did not have O2 sensor inputs and ca= n't =20 take advantage of the closed loop modes. That is unrelated to the possibl= e=20 cause of the hiccup though. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" <_bbradburry@bellsouth.net_=20 (mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net) > wrote: =20 =20 I went thru and cleaned up all my grounds and it seems to have fixed=20 everything with the exception of the hiccup. =20 Tracy, have you finished the bench testing on the EC-2 upgrade yet? I=20 would really like to try and see if that will fix this problem. My wife= =20 really doesn=E2=80=99t like that hiccup!=20 Bill B=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [_mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 3:41 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose I currently have a separate ground from each of the batteries to a=20 Nuckolls =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D ground point. Everything inside= the cockpit grounds=20 here. Also the fuel pumps and injectors ground here. The coils ground on= =20 the center iron. There are separate grounds from each battery to the PSRU= =20 plate on each side of the starter. I have considered bringing two separat= e=20 grounds from the center iron to the batteries just in case there is =20 resistance getting from the center iron to the PSRU plate.=20 I am also taking all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anything= =20 that seems that it might not be properly bonded.=20 I am doing this for two reasons. One, I am still getting that occasional = =E2=80=9C hiccup=E2=80=9D that is violent enough to shake the plane when it happens.= It is=20 bad enough that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the=20 PSRU. I am also wondering if it could be the PSRU that has sheared the pi= n and=20 is slipping? Someone on here had that happen and I would really =20 appreciate a description of what that sounded and felt like and also how I = could=20 make certain that is not the problem. No, I don=E2=80=99t want to dismant= le the PSRU=20 to check it unless that seems to be the only way to check it.=20 Also, Tracy, how are you progressing on getting the upgrade for the EC-2= =20 that might fix this hiccup if that is what it is? I think you had it done= =20 for the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 implementation??=20 The second reason for going thru the grounds is that I am having an=20 intermittent problem with my GTX327 transponder, MFD150 moving map, and Tr= uTrak=20 autopilot shutting down. This seems to happen more often when I key the= =20 mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying the mike is not required. It sometim= es =20 happens just out of the blue. Also most of the time, only the transponder= =20 shuts off. Only sometimes does the moving map and autopilot join in the= =20 fun.=20 Everybody tells me that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going=20 thru the ground system. =20 I welcome all opinions and input!=20 Bill B=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [_mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] On Behalf Of Tracy Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 10:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose Tying the engine parts together should not be necessary but you still need= =20 a separate ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your=20 avionics ground point. Also separate feeds from +12 battery to =20 starter/alternator and avionics. You can Use the starter/alternator feed = for coils,=20 injectors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus. Tracy =20 =20 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry <_bbradburry@bellsouth.net_= =20 (mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net) > wrote:=20 =20 =20 Several months ago, after a discussion with Tracy, I ran grounding straps= =20 from each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the starter mount. I= =20 had previously had the grounding strap running between the center iron and= =20 the =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D grounding block on the firewall. Tra= cy suggested I=20 move it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding block.=20 Now I have the igniters grounded on the center iron and I am considering= =20 running a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to= =20 tie each section of the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich=E2=80=9D together by runn= ing a wire between=20 them. This would to be certain that the ground is good on the igniters.= =20 Any opinions on this??=20 Bill B=20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ] On Behalf Of Andrew Martin Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 8:29 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose Bill As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery= =20 direct to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engin= e=20 without problems. I remember Tracy posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to find= =20 in the archives now. Andrew=20 =20 =20 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle <_msteitle@gmail.com_=20 (mailto:msteitle@gmail.com) > wrote:=20 Bill, =20 =20 =20 You may want to check your engine ground. Starter current may be causing = =20 this. =20 =20 Mark S.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry <_bbradburry@bellsouth.net_= =20 (mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net) > wrote:=20 I am working on cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burn= t like it had an electrical spark exit from it. I have not found anything i= n the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have jumped?? Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? Do I have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is grounded to the engine. Bill B -- Homepage: _http://www.flyrotary.com/_ (http://www.flyrotary.com/)=20 Archive and UnSub: =20 _http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html_ (http://mail.l= ancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html)=20 =3D --part1_3d5a6.1887f1fb.3e1dbd2c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
Tracy,
 
As usual, I am confused.
 
I am in the process of finishing the wiring of my EC-3 and EM-3. Witho= ut=20 the diagram in front of me, my memory says that the O2 sensor is connected = to=20 the EM-3 for tuning, not the EC-3. Am I mistaken or  was the -2 differ= ent,=20 in this respect to the -3????
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 1/8/2013 11:00:49 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 rwstracy@gmail.com writes:
=
Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version is complete.  Don't know = what=20 vintage your EC2 is but the early ones did not have O2 sensor inputs and = can't=20 take advantage of the closed loop modes.  That is unrelated to the= =20 possible cause of the hiccup though.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>= =20 wrote:

I went thru = and=20 cleaned up all my grounds and it seems to have fixed everything with th= e=20 exception of the hiccup. 

 <= /O:P>

Tracy= , have you f= inished=20 the bench testing on the EC-2 upgrade yet?  I would really like to= try=20 and see if that will fix this problem.  My wife really doesn=E2=80= =99t like=20 that hiccup!

 <= /O:P>

Bill=20 B

 <= /O:P>

From:= =20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net]=20 On Behalf Of Bill=20 Bradburry
Sent: Satu= rday,=20 December 08, 2012 3:41 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroqui= p=20 hose

 

I currently = have a=20 separate ground from each of the batteries to a Nuckolls =E2=80=9Cfores= t of tabs=E2=80=9D=20 ground point.  Everything inside the cockpit grounds here.  A= lso=20 the fuel pumps and injectors ground here.  The coils ground on the= =20 center iron.  There are separate grounds from each battery to the = PSRU=20 plate on each side of the starter.  I have considered bringing two= =20 separate grounds from the center iron to the batteries just in case the= re is=20 resistance getting from the center iron to the PSRU=20 plate.

I am also ta= king=20 all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anything that seems that= it=20 might not be properly bonded.

 <= /O:P>

I am doing t= his for=20 two reasons.  One, I am still getting that occasional =E2=80=9Chic= cup=E2=80=9D that is=20 violent enough to shake the plane when it happens.  It is bad enou= gh=20 that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the PSRU. = I am=20 also wondering if it could be the PSRU that has sheared the pin and is= =20 slipping?  Someone on here had that happen and I would really=20 appreciate a description of what that sounded and felt like and also ho= w I=20 could make certain that is not the problem.  No, I don=E2=80=99t w= ant to=20 dismantle the PSRU to check it unless that seems to be the only way to = check=20 it.

 <= /O:P>

Also, Tracy, how are= you=20 progressing on getting the upgrade for the EC-2 that might fix this hic= cup=20 if that is what it is?  I think you had it done for the EC-3 and w= ere=20 working on the EC-2 implementation??

 <= /O:P>

The second r= eason=20 for going thru the grounds is that I am having an intermittent problem = with=20 my GTX327 transponder, MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak autopilot shuttin= g=20 down.  This seems to happen more often when I key the mike on my= =20 GNS430W radio, but keying the mike is not required.  It sometimes= =20 happens just out of the blue.  Also most of the time, only the=20 transponder shuts off.  Only sometimes does the moving map and=20 autopilot join in the fun.

 <= /O:P>

Everybody te= lls me=20 that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going thru the ground sy= stem.=20

 <= /O:P>

I welcome al= l=20 opinions and input!

 <= /O:P>

Bill=20 B

 <= /O:P>

From:= =20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net]=20 On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 201= 2 10:56=20 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroqui= p=20 hose

 

Tying the engi= ne parts=20 together should not be necessary but you still need a separate ground f= rom=20 battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionics ground=20 point.   Also separate feeds from +12 battery to=20 starter/alternator and avionics.  You can Use the starter/alternat= or=20 feed for coils, injectors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the=20 avionics bus.

Tracy

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>=20 wrote:

Several mont= hs ago,=20 after a discussion with Tracy, I ran grounding straps from e= ach=20 battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the starter mount.  I h= ad=20 previously had the grounding strap running between the center iron and = the=20 =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D grounding block on the firewall. = Tracy suggeste= d I move=20 it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding=20 block.

Now I have t= he=20 igniters grounded on the center iron and I am considering running a gro= und=20 strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to tie each secti= on of=20 the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich=E2=80=9D together by running a wire betwee= n them.  This=20 would to be certain that the ground is good on the=20 igniters.

 

Any opinions= on=20 this??

 

Bill=20 B

 

From:= =20 Rotary motors in aircraft= =20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Martin
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 = 8:29=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroqui= p=20 hose

 

Bill

As= Mark=20 says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery direct= to=20 your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine witho= ut=20 problems.
I remember Tracy posting on this issue years ag= o just=20 a bit hard to find in the archives=20 now.

Andrew

 

On Sat, Dec 8,= 2012 at=20 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>=20 wrote:

Bill, 

 

You may want t= o check=20 your engine ground.  Starter current may be causing=20 this.

 

Mark=20 S. 

 

  

On Fri, Dec 7,= 2012 at=20 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry &l= t;bbradburry@bellsouth.net>=20 wrote:

I am working o= n=20 cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have
several, 3 or= 4,=20 places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burnt
like it h= ad an=20 electrical spark exit from it.  I have not found anything in
th= e=20 vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would=20 have
jumped??

Has anyone seen something like this and what sh= ould=20 I do about it?  Do I
have a ground problem in the engine compar= tment=20 or is this maybe static?
The hoses are covered by SS and are connect= ed on=20 one end to a filter that
has a ground strap on it and on the other e= nd to=20 the fuel rail which is
grounded to the engine.

Bill=20 B


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