X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.78.142] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6001104 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:05:29 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.78.142; envelope-from=bktrub@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.72]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id B400F1C00027C for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 12:02:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-due002c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-due002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.67.69]) by mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 5F6E7E00008D for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2013 12:02:49 -0500 (EST) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CFBBD91F154F14_E7C_86322_webmail-m099.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37276-STANDARD Received: from 50.46.150.41 by webmail-m099.sysops.aol.com (64.12.91.156) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 08 Jan 2013 12:02:48 -0500 Message-Id: <8CFBBD91EDE8F2F-E7C-2621B@webmail-m099.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [50.46.150.41] Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 12:02:49 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1357664569; bh=yhDuX7qfJe7aV9/ClRyOjNFME0u5Z/mdv4XDs1G96DY=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Yffm21B4IhratEAOzFW78bOROXGj/G49O1SFLriJx3Y3whY1JNyAf9y3ONWGcN1Gd wzNo2Hdwy1bCufif0IgC5V98LNBJU08rxyEw9XhqWo6FFHhXsscHKXAgx4Q+In0MHv yF8LEPPtUcMGfYoaprToa4EnNQvnVu/uEXcZcA9g= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:514131712:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d294850ec51391ab3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CFBBD91F154F14_E7C_86322_webmail-m099.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Are you sure this sin's happening when the injectors stage? I had it happen= once while taking someone for a ride, didn't figure out what it was until = after I landed.=20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Jan 8, 2013 9:00 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version is complete. Don't know what vintage= your EC2 is but the early ones did not have O2 sensor inputs and can't tak= e advantage of the closed loop modes. That is unrelated to the possible ca= use of the hiccup though. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" wro= te: I went thru and cleaned up all my groundsand it seems to have fixed everyth= ing with the exception of the hiccup. =20 =20 Tracy, have you finished the bench testing on the EC-2 upgradeyet? I would= really like to try and see if that will fix thisproblem. My wife really d= oesn=E2=80=99t like that hiccup! =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] OnBehal= f Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Saturday, December 08, 20123:41 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquiphose =20 I currently have a separate ground fromeach of the batteries to a Nuckolls = =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D groundpoint. Everything inside the cockpi= t grounds here. Also the fuelpumps and injectors ground here. The coils g= round on the centeriron. There are separate grounds from each battery to t= he PSRU plate oneach side of the starter. I have considered bringing two s= eparate groundsfrom the center iron to the batteries just in case there is = resistance gettingfrom the center iron to the PSRU plate. I am also taking all my grounds apart tocheck for corrosion or anything tha= t seems that it might not be properlybonded. =20 I am doing this for two reasons. One, I am still getting that occasional = =E2=80=9Chiccup=E2=80=9D that is violentenough to shake the plane when it h= appens. It is bad enough that I amconcerned that it might be bad for the p= in in the PSRU. I am alsowondering if it could be the PSRU that has sheare= d the pin and isslipping? Someone on here had that happen and I would real= ly appreciate adescription of what that sounded and felt like and also how = I could makecertain that is not the problem. No, I don=E2=80=99t want to d= ismantle thePSRU to check it unless that seems to be the only way to check = it. =20 Also, Tracy, how are you progressing on getting theupgrade for the EC-2 tha= t might fix this hiccup if that is what it is? Ithink you had it done for = the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2implementation?? =20 The second reason for going thru thegrounds is that I am having an intermit= tent problem with my GTX327 transponder,MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak auto= pilot shutting down. This seems tohappen more often when I key the mike on= my GNS430W radio, but keying the mikeis not required. It sometimes happen= s just out of the blue. Alsomost of the time, only the transponder shuts o= ff. Only sometimes does themoving map and autopilot join in the fun. =20 Everybody tells me that it sounds like aground issue, hence I am going thru= the ground system.=20 =20 I welcome all opinions and input! =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] OnBehal= f Of Tracy Sent: Saturday, December 08, 201210:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquiphose =20 Tying the engine partstogether should not be necessary but you still need a= separate ground frombattery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionic= s groundpoint. Also separate feeds from +12 battery to starter/alternator= and avionics. You can Use the starter/alternator feed for coils, injectors= & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus. Tracy=20 On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Several months ago, after a discussion with Tracy, I ran grounding straps f= rom eachbattery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the starter mount. I ha= dpreviously had the grounding strap running between the center iron and the= =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D grounding block on the firewall. Tracy su= ggested I move itso the starter amps would not get into the grounding block= . Now I have the igniters grounded on the center iron and I amconsidering run= ning a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries ortrying to tie e= ach section of the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich=E2=80=9D together byrunning a w= ire between them. This would to be certain that the ground isgood on the i= gniters. =20 Any opinions on this?? =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behal= f Of Andrew Martin Sent: Friday, December 07, 20128:29 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquiphose =20 Bill As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery di= rectto your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine wi= thoutproblems. I remember Tracyposting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to find in = the archives now. Andrew =20 On Sat, Dec 8,2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: Bill,=20 =20 You may want tocheck your engine ground. Starter current may be causing th= is. =20 Mark S.=20 =20 =20 On Fri, Dec 7,2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry wro= te: I am working oncleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burnt like it had an electrical spark exit from it. I have not found anythingin the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have jumped?? Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? Do I have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is grounded to the engine. Bill B -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html =20 =20 =20 =20 ----------MB_8CFBBD91F154F14_E7C_86322_webmail-m099.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Are you sure this sin's hap= pening when the injectors stage? I had it happen once while taking someone = for a ride, didn't figure out what it was until after I landed. 

Brian Trubee


-----= Original Message-----
From: Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 8, 2013 9:00 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose changed to hiccup

Yes, bench testing on the EC2 version is complete.  Don't know wh= at vintage your EC2 is but the early ones did not have O2 sensor inputs and= can't take advantage of the closed loop modes.  That is unrelated to = the possible cause of the hiccup though.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 8, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I went thru and= cleaned up all my grounds and it seems to have fixed everything with the exception of the hiccup.&nbs= p;
 
Tracy<= /font>, have you finished the bench test= ing on the EC-2 upgrade yet?  I would really like to try and see if that will fix this problem.  My wife really doesn=E2=80=99t like that hiccup!
 
Bill B
 
From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Saturday, December 08,= 2012 3:41 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose
 
I currently hav= e a separate ground from each of the batteries to a Nuckolls =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D ground point.  Everything inside the cockpit grounds here.  Also the fue= l pumps and injectors ground here.  The coils ground on the center iron.  There are separate grounds from each battery to the PSRU plate = on each side of the starter.  I have considered bringing two separate gro= unds from the center iron to the batteries just in case there is resistance gett= ing from the center iron to the PSRU plate.
I am also takin= g all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anything that seems that it might not be properly bonded.
 
I am doing this= for two reasons.  One, I am still getting that occasional =E2=80=9Chiccup=E2=80=9D that is vi= olent enough to shake the plane when it happens.  It is bad enough that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the PSRU.  I am also wondering if it could be the PSRU that has sheared the pin and is slipping?  Someone on here had that happen and I would really apprecia= te a description of what that sounded and felt like and also how I could make certain that is not the problem.  No, I don=E2=80=99t want to dismantl= e the PSRU to check it unless that seems to be the only way to check it.
 
Also, Tracy, ho= w are you progressing on getting the upgrade for the EC-2 that might fix this hiccup if that is what it is? = ; I think you had it done for the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 implementation??
 
The second reas= on for going thru the grounds is that I am having an intermittent problem with my GTX327 transpon= der, MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak autopilot shutting down.  This seems to happen more often when I key the mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying the m= ike is not required.  It sometimes happens just out of the blue.  Als= o most of the time, only the transponder shuts off.  Only sometimes does= the moving map and autopilot join in the fun.
 
Everybody tells= me that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going thru the ground system.
 
I welcome all o= pinions and input!
 
Bill B
 
From:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Saturday, December 08,= 2012 10:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose
 
Tying the engine pa= rts together should not be necessary but you still need a separate ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionics ground point.   Also separate feeds from +12 battery to starter/alternat= or and avionics.  You can Use the starter/alternator feed for coils, inje= ctors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus.

Tracy
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bells= outh.net> wrote:
Several months ago, after a d= iscussion with Tracy, I ran grounding straps from each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the starter mount.  I had previously had the grounding strap running between the center iron and the =E2=80=9Cforest of tabs=E2=80=9D grounding block on the firewall.  Tra= cy suggested I move it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding block.
Now I have the igniters groun= ded on the center iron and I am considering running a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to tie each section of the engine =E2=80=9Csandwich=E2=80=9D togethe= r by running a wire between them.  This would to be certain that the ground= is good on the igniters.
 
Any opinions on this??=
 
Bill B
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Martin Sent: Friday, December 07, 2= 012 8:29 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose
 
Bill

As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery di= rect to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine withou= t problems.
I remember Tracy posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to find in the archives now= .

Andrew
 
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle <mst= eitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Bill, 
 
You may want to check your engine ground.  Starter current may be causing this.=
 
Mark S. 
 
  
On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
I am working on cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have
several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burnt=
like it had an electrical spark exit from it.  I have not found anythi= ng in
the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have
jumped??

Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it?  Do= I
have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is
grounded to the engine.

Bill B


--
Homepage:  htt= p://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/li= sts/flyrotary/List.html
 
 
 
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