X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c2) with ESMTP id 5869041 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 13:01:58 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=KMfY/S5o c=1 sm=0 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:17 a=AHkS0RJitIMA:10 a=DGl3cIMJq9QA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=4YGqAiqMcKMA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=aVHEqIQ9p25GArP4RfkA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=3CxG3yaHhkgAZAOJFokA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=P9c5QX-6cN4SCmha:21 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.170.10 Received: from [174.110.170.10] ([174.110.170.10:54959] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 7E/4C-01425-573FB905; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 18:01:25 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade? Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 13:01:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01CDBDB1.20584810" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CDBDB1.20584810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Very interesting! Certainly strange for sure. =20 Well, I always prefer to understand the problem and fix - as I know you = do. But, sometimes, with a blackbox , you are fortunate if you can just = find the fix and it sure looks like you have done that. =20 We could discuss possible causes for the next year and be no surer of = our conclusions {:>) - just the nature of the blackbox. Ed =20 From: Steven W. Boese=20 Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 10:52 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade? Ed, I tested the engine on the stand with variable resistors across each CAS = yesterday. With the engine idling at about 1500 RPM, less than 100 ohms = resistance across either CAS would cause the engine to quit completely. = Resistances this low must decrease the voltage generated by the CAS to a = value too low for the controller to use. The engine would not start with = 200 ohm across one CAS and 1K ohm across the other. It didn't matter = which CAS had the lower resistance. The engine would start with 300 ohm = across one CAS and 1K ohm across the other. This makes sense since the = CAS cannot generate a very strong signal at cranking speed. What doesn't make sense to me: Starting with 1K resistance across each CAS, if the resistance on one = CAS was increased to 69K, the engine would still run fine at 1500 RPM. = If the resistance was increased to 69K on the other CAS, the engine = would only run on one rotor. It didn't matter which CAS resistance was = increased first. With 1K resistance across one CAS, changing the resistance of the other = CAS from 69K back to 1K by connecting a wire would sometimes cause the = engine would miss what seemed to be one firing event. Again, there was = no difference in the behavior of either CAS in this regard. The conclusion seems to be that adding the 1K resistor to each CAS seems = to be beneficial and the value of 1K is not critical or on the threshold = of causing other problems. Steve=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf = of Ed Anderson [eanderson@carolina.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 6:38 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade? Likewise, Steve. Seeing as how both the ignition and injector pulse drop out in that band = - it would seem to me that the problem must lie in the circuit common to = both which is the CAS signal processing circuit. If only one pulse = train, either the ignition or the injector pulses only dropped out, then = of course you would suspect the respective circuit - but, this is common = to both. =20 On the other hand, rotor 1 continues to run - but, as you noted - the = pulse duration for even rotor 1 in this rpm range does not appear = normal in that range. I suspect that since your 1K ohm resistor (which brings the peak voltage = down to 6 volts) where it appears to run ok at that point, that for = some reason the input circuitry has a problem handling the +13 volt peak = in the 660-1400 rpm range. Since this would fall in normal TTY signal = range (used by the microprocessor), I suspect that perhaps due to some = bandpass filter effect of the components in the input circuit that the = +13 volt peaks are overdriving the input circuit within that rpm range. = Adding the resistor changes the bandpass frequency and puts it = someplace (probably lower) out side your operating rpm range. But, again without knowledge of the input circuit and seeing what is = really going on inside the EC its difficult to say. Ed No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5880 - Release Date: = 11/07/12 ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CDBDB1.20584810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Very interesting!
 
Certainly strange for sure.   =
 
Well, I always prefer to understand the problem = and fix -=20 as I know you do.  But, sometimes, with a blackbox , you are = fortunate if=20 you can just find the fix and it sure looks like you have done = that.  =20
 
We could discuss possible causes for the next = year and be=20 no surer of our conclusions {:>) - just the nature of the=20 blackbox.
 
Ed  

From: Steven W. Boese
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 10:52 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2=20 upgrade?

Ed,

 

I tested the engine on the stand with variable = resistors across=20 each CAS yesterday. With the engine idling at about 1500 RPM, = less than=20 100 ohms resistance across either CAS would cause the engine to = quit=20 completely. Resistances this low must decrease the voltage generated by = the=20 CAS to a value too low for the controller to use. The engine = would not=20 start with 200 ohm across one CAS and 1K ohm across the = other. It=20 didn't matter which CAS had the lower resistance. The engine = would start=20 with 300 ohm across one CAS and 1K ohm across the other. = This=20 makes sense since the CAS cannot generate a very strong signal at = cranking speed.

 

What doesn't make sense to me:

Starting with 1K resistance across each = CAS, if=20 the resistance on one CAS was increased to 69K, the engine = would=20 still run fine at 1500 RPM. If the resistance was increased to = 69K on the=20 other CAS, the engine would only run on one rotor. It didn't = matter which=20 CAS resistance was increased first.

 

With 1K resistance across one CAS, = changing the=20 resistance of the other CAS from 69K back to 1K by=20 connecting a wire would sometimes cause the engine would miss what = seemed to be=20 one firing event. Again, there was no difference in the behavior of = either=20 CAS in this regard.

 

The conclusion seems to be that adding the 1K = resistor to=20 each CAS seems to be beneficial and the value of 1K is not = critical or on the threshold of causing other problems.

 

Steve

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 on behalf of Ed Anderson [eanderson@carolina.rr.com]
Sent: = Thursday,=20 November 08, 2012 6:38 AM
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2=20 upgrade?

Likewise, Steve.
 
Seeing as how both the ignition and injector = pulse drop=20 out in that band - it would seem to me that the problem must lie in the = circuit=20 common to both which is the CAS signal processing circuit.  If only = one=20 pulse train, either the ignition or the injector pulses only = dropped out,=20 then of course you would suspect the respective circuit - but, this is = common to=20 both. 
 
On the other hand, rotor 1 continues to run - = but, as you=20 noted - the pulse duration for even rotor  1 in this rpm range = does=20 not appear normal in that range.
 
I suspect that since your 1K ohm resistor (which = brings=20 the peak voltage down to  6 volts) where  it appears to = run ok at=20 that point, that for some reason the input circuitry has a problem = handling the=20 +13 volt peak in the 660-1400 rpm range.  Since this would fall in = normal=20 TTY signal range (used by the microprocessor), I suspect that perhaps = due to=20 some bandpass filter effect of the components in the input circuit that = the +13=20 volt peaks are overdriving the input circuit within that rpm = range.  =20 Adding the resistor changes the bandpass frequency  and puts it = someplace=20 (probably lower) out side your operating rpm range.
 
 But, again without knowledge of the input = circuit=20 and seeing what is really going on inside the EC its difficult to=20 say.
 
Ed
 

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2742 / = Virus=20 Database: 2617/5880 - Release Date: 11/07/12

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