Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #59204
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade?
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 08:38:40 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Likewise, Steve.
 
Seeing as how both the ignition and injector pulse drop out in that band - it would seem to me that the problem must lie in the circuit common to both which is the CAS signal processing circuit.  If only one pulse train, either the ignition or the injector pulses only dropped out, then of course you would suspect the respective circuit - but, this is common to both. 
 
On the other hand, rotor 1 continues to run - but, as you noted - the pulse duration for even rotor  1 in this rpm range does not appear normal in that range.
 
I suspect that since your 1K ohm resistor (which brings the peak voltage down to  6 volts) where  it appears to run ok at that point, that for some reason the input circuitry has a problem handling the +13 volt peak in the 660-1400 rpm range.  Since this would fall in normal TTY signal range (used by the microprocessor), I suspect that perhaps due to some bandpass filter effect of the components in the input circuit that the +13 volt peaks are overdriving the input circuit within that rpm range.   Adding the resistor changes the bandpass frequency  and puts it someplace (probably lower) out side your operating rpm range.
 
 But, again without knowledge of the input circuit and seeing what is really going on inside the EC its difficult to say.
 
Ed
 

Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 11:35 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade?

Ed,

 

I always learn things from your discussions.

 

An intriguing aspect of the rotor 2 dropout is that it occurs over a band of RPM. Below and above this band, the engine apparently operates normally.

 

I've attached an image of the signals when the engine transitions to missing rotor 2 as the RPM increases during startup. The plot is without the signal from CAS 2 since the CAS 2 signal makes it harder to see what is happening. Again, the voltages need to be multiplied by 3.

 

As seen in the plot, rotor 2 signals for fuel injectors and ignition coils disappear as RPM increases. Rotor 1 is also affected since the dwell time for its coil signals is 1 ms in one case and 13 ms in the next cycle. Before and after this time the dwell for all coil signals is generally around 5 ms.

 

My intention is to take Bobby's suggestion of removing the 1K resistor on CAS 1 one step farther and install variable resistors in both locations. This might enable the placing of limits on the effective resistor values. If the resistor value is not critical to reliable operation, I'll install fixed value resistors that are not close to the limits and go with that. Tracy is really the only one who can address the cause and effect and I'll just accept the fact that life will continue to have its mysteries.

 

Steve

 


From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Ed Anderson [eanderson@carolina.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2012 7:45 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade?

Hi Steve,
 
Always impress with your digging into these anomalies!
 
So what are the relevant factors looking at the black box. 
 
One  thing we know is that the interval between pulses becomes greater as the rpm is lowered.  While the peak voltage probably remains fairly constant - the average voltage will decrease due to the lower pulse duty cycle.  Also based on your analysis, a 1K ohm load on the input circuit reduces the pulse peak voltage level from approx +13.5 volts to around +6.00 volts peak - which given the same pulse duty cycle would mean even a lower average voltage  -  after which the engine runs OK at lower rpm. 
 
I suspect the EC has a limiting circuit of some type to reduce the +13.5 volt peaks to that suitable for input to a microcontroller chip (generally +5 volts TTY).  I use a combination of a zener diode and a dropping resistor in my EFISM such that any voltage above 5 volts causes the diode to conduct and clip/limit the peak to around 5 volts.  There are, of course, many other voltage limiting circuit methods with different characteristics that might be affected differently with a lower peak or average voltage or the 1K loading. 
 
Analog SWAG:
 
Interaction of pulse train and a capacitive element of  the EC
 
IF for example the circuit was such that the pulse train kept some capacitive element repeatedly trigger so as to be discharged between pulses with the rpm above a specific rpm, then as the duration between pulses became longer (with the lower rpm) it might reach a critical point where the capacitor never becomes completely discharged -I.e  the discharging pulse does not occur frequently enough to bring/keep the capacitor to zero volt level between pulses - as an example.  Adding the resistor may result in  a quicker discharge circuit than without the resistor- thereby again permitting capacitor to completely discharge between pulses and the circuit to work at lower rpms .  This quicker discharge and the lower peak  voltage may combine to permit the capacitor to completely discharge at your lower rpm.  The  lower voltage seen may only be a side effect and not the reason for the circuit now working.  Just one thought.
 
Digital SWAG:
 
I don't see how the 1K resistor would play in this  scenario, but I'm throwing it in for consideration.
 
One problem I ran into early on with my EFISM was that the Pulse circuit in the microchip had only a word (16 bits) wide register to store pulse timing data, meaning that no more that 65535 CPU clock tics could be stored.  In my case with an 8Mhz clock tic it mean that any Low rpm with an interval of greater than 122 msec (approx 500 rpm or lower) would overflow the word memory size - causing errors.  If the CPU clock tic is at a higher rate the minimum rpm is raised and if lower cock tic rate the min rpm level is lower. 
 
 I had to add a flag to signal when the pulse duration memory register overflowed and then use that flag (when set)  to add 65535 to the pulse interval clock tic count to calculate the correct rpm, otherwise the rpm calculated was in error.
 
So again, this is probably not a factor - as I don't see where the 1K resistor or lower peak voltage would play a role, but thought I would throw it out for consideration.
 
All I can think of for the moment
 
Ed
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

 


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