X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5728590 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:21:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=QrvcLCOd c=1 sm=0 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:17 a=AHkS0RJitIMA:10 a=kUYh17FsJ2sA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=VS7X8f2Zsd0A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=KOQ_2pMctcFjfZ8Fn4UA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=E93lBu2AAAAA:8 a=YkjvRjuutUzE47AUux8A:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=7god_763jbgA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=hO30gm18fF0A:10 a=MpuOTR30KwMA:10 a=8y3r-Fxw0wcA:10 a=ZUHL7eEe4EUA:10 a=8lfLvbM9VgMA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.170.10 Received: from [174.110.170.10] ([174.110.170.10:64595] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id E1/06-28917-F4FD8305; Sat, 25 Aug 2012 14:21:04 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Water Injection: [FlyRotary]Turboquestion. Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:21:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01CD82AB.559D8EE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01CD82AB.559D8EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, good memory, Bobby! =20 Yes, never had a problem with liquids in the combustion chamber with = Plugs up as any immediately pour out the exhaust port- doesn't flood, = leaking coolant (yes, had that) drops through to the exhaust pipe which = then leaked on ground which is easy to spot, and the spark plugs are = easy to get to. What's not to like {:>) Ed From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 9:11 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water Injection: [FlyRotary]Turboquestion. So that's why you went plugs up! Bobby Sent from my iPad On Aug 25, 2012, at 6:52 AM, "Ed Anderson" = wrote: Back in 1976 when I build probably one of the first turbocharged = Honda Civics with a 1200cc engine east of the Mississippi - I used water = injection from a windshield wiper bag and it worked fine - once I got it = working. While installing the water injection "system", unbeknownst to me, = water had dribbled out of the water tube injection end down into the = intake manifold. The car was on a stand which had a slight slope to the = left. =20 In any case, after getting everything installed I couldn't wait to = test it out. I got into the car and fire up the engine - there was an = immediate "bump" following by a pining sound coming from the engine. = The pining sound clearly was in sync with the cars rpm. I killed the = engine and got out to investigate. I check the compression on all four cylinders and found the down = slope cylinder to be lower that the rest. I dropped the oil pan to view = the engine and remember thinking how ingenious the Japanese engineers = were to put a curve into the connecting rod to get the best thrust = angle. Then the light bulb came on as I noticed the other three = connecting rods were straight. =20 I had re-confirmed the scientific fact that water as a liquid is = essentially incompressible - water had leaked into the cylinder and when = I fired the engine the piston tried to compress it. The forces sheared = the compressing ring land off the aluminum piston destroying the piston = and had forced the connection rod to curve to such an extend that the = curved part was now slapping on the bottom of the cylinder opening each = time the crankshaft went around. Fortunately I had not tried to drive the car or I almost certainly = would have cause the rod to break and destroyed the engine; Probably not as likely with a rotary engine, but I think I would check = very carefully any water injection design and installation. Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5223 - Release Date: = 08/25/12 ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01CD82AB.559D8EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ah, good memory,  Bobby!  =
 
Yes, never had a problem  with liquids = in the=20 combustion chamber with Plugs up as any immediately pour out the = exhaust=20 port- doesn't flood, leaking coolant (yes, had that) drops through to = the=20 exhaust pipe which then leaked on ground which is easy to spot, and the = spark=20 plugs are easy to get to.  What's not to like = {:>)
Ed

From: Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 9:11 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water Injection:=20 [FlyRotary]Turboquestion.

So that's why you went plugs up!

Bobby


Sent from my iPad

On Aug 25, 2012, at 6:52 AM, "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:

Back in  1976 when I build probably one = of the=20 first turbocharged Honda Civics with a 1200cc engine east of the = Mississippi -=20 I used water injection from a windshield wiper bag and it worked fine = - once I=20 got it working.
 
While installing the water injection "system", = unbeknownst to me, water had dribbled out of the water tube injection = end down=20 into the intake manifold.  The car was on a stand which had a = slight=20 slope to the left. 
 
In any case, after getting everything = installed I=20 couldn't wait to test it out.  I got into the car and fire up the = engine=20 - there was an immediate "bump" following by a pining sound coming = from the=20 engine.  The pining sound clearly  was in sync with the cars = rpm.  I killed the engine and got out to = investigate.
 
I check the compression on all four cylinders = and =20 found the down slope cylinder to be lower that the rest.  I = dropped the=20 oil pan to view the engine and remember thinking how ingenious the = Japanese=20 engineers were to put a curve into the connecting rod to get the best = thrust=20 angle.  Then the light bulb came on as I noticed the other three=20 connecting rods were straight. 
 
I had re-confirmed the scientific fact that = water as a=20 liquid is essentially incompressible - water had leaked into the = cylinder and=20 when I fired the engine the piston tried to compress it.  = The forces=20 sheared the compressing ring land off the aluminum = piston destroying the=20 piston and had forced the connection rod to curve to such an = extend that=20 the curved part was now slapping on the bottom of the cylinder opening = each=20 time the crankshaft went around.
 
Fortunately I had not tried to drive the car = or I almost=20 certainly would have cause the rod to break and destroyed the=20 engine;
Probably not as likely with a rotary engine, = but I think=20 I would check very carefully any water injection design and=20 installation.
 
Ed

 Edward L. = Anderson
Anderson=20 Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC = 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / = Virus=20 Database: 2437/5223 - Release Date: 08/25/12

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