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Drag racers still use water injection. Most others don't because of the risk of engine damage at those high power outputs although some do on the street. Given the power levels available through ordinary turbocharging (and the fact that 100 octane gas is readily available, something not true for the car guys) there is probably just not that much benefit to water injection. Those WW2 guys were running 60 inches of manifold pressure or more, with engines with much less inherent detonation resistance than Wankels.
Realistically, a 13B running at manifold pressures where water injection is actually necessary is going to be making 400HP, probably more. The lifespan of such an engine - water injection or not - is probably just not going to be high enough for comfortable aircraft use. Now, if you want to go to the Reno air races.....
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 10:43 PM, <Lehanover@aol.com> wrote:
Water and alcohol injection for high blower as on WWII engines.
Lynn E. Hanover
(Old Stories time) In 1981 I bought an RX-7,
drove it for a year, and had it turboed at a speed shop in L.A. No
intercoolers for cars in those days. The way they got around detonation
was with water injection. A cheap windshield washer container and pump,
and a vacuum sensor at the intake. With adjustable boost, it ran
great! Sea level was the most dangerous, had to watch it close there,
but going over Sherwin and Donners summits (6,000 ft. +) I could dial in
almost 9-10 lbs, and that sucker screamed. Put probably 50K miles on it
before I sold it, and never had any trouble. So, all, would water
injection be a good backup for hot days? I heard that some of the early
turbocharged engines during WWII used it, so why haven't we tried
it?
Greg Ward
Lancair Legacy 20b, STILL in progress
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 8:34
PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Check Temps on
Climbout was e: [FlyRotary]Turboquestion.
See how
much one can learn from one simple sentance. Thanks all for the
update. David R. Cook RV6A Rotary 28hrs.
From: "David Leonard" < wdleonard@gmail.com> To:
"Rotary motors in aircraft" < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent:
Friday, August 24, 2012 8:51:21 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:
Check Temps on Climbout was e: [FlyRotary]Turboquestion. And just to
belabor the point even more, turbos are less than 100% efficient.
Meaning that any extra work that went into trying to compress the air but
did not, ends up as additional heat in the compressed air. And, the
turbo itself is very hot even on the compressor side, which adds even more
calories. All that being said, you CAN run small amounts of boost
without an intercooler, but you have to compensate by running extra rich and
or retarding the timing. Much better in the long run to use an
intercooler. David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.nethttp://RotaryRoster.net
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Dave Staten <david.staten@gmail.com> wrote:
Air at altitude is cooler because of low pressure. When you compress
it, it heats. Intake temps can be over 250 degrees, greatly increasing the
chance of detonation. Intercoolers are VERY necessary if you want to reap
any benefit from the turbo.
Dave.
Sent from my iPhone
Hay Chris, I'm
not turbo savy, but do you realy need an intercooler,,,,,,,at
altitude,,,,,, the air is pretty cold already, the racers on the ground
need them because the air near the ground is hot, not at 6000+++
feet. just a thought & will be watching, a turbo instead of a
muffler I'm thinking may be a better choice. David R. Cook
RV6A Rotary Lansing MI.
From: "Chris Barber" < cbarber@texasattorney.net> To: "Rotary
motors in aircraft" < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent:
Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:49:50 PM Subject: [FlyRotary]
Re: Check Temps on Climbout was e: [FlyRotary]Turboquestion.
Yes. That is correct. The 3lb spring limits boost it is the lowest
I have as I wanted to start low.
I checked my intercooler and it is flowing well. No obstruction or
leak I could find. It may be the location of the blow of valve. I will
remove it and see if I get good boost
Sent from my iPhone 4
Andrew, I believe the 3 lb spring he is talking about is the
wastegate spring, this limits boost, the 3 lb one is the lowest boost
available, as the springs get stronger the more exhaust is forced
through the turbo.
Chris?
Chrissi & Randi
www.CozyGirrrl.com
ClickBonds
10/$7.50
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen,
Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
Chris
if your blow off valve is before the
intercooler, it may just be opening too soon with that 3lb spring
and allowing all your air to vent, then the engine would act as NA
but with the intercooler as a added restriction. try a heavier
spring.
Andrew
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Chris Barber
<cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
Thanks Ed. I am pleased you verified my concern
after my cooling skyrocketing yesterday when I went to full
power.
Trying to determine where the restriction is
now.
You are the best.
Sent from my iPhone 4
On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:48 PM, "Ed Anderson" < eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
>
Chris, One thing to be checking on your next take off is your
coolant/oil temps. As you know take-off is the worst
combination of low cooling air mass flow and max engine
temperature due to WOT. > > You would be surprised how
quickly (with the additional power you now have) you will exceed
your cooling limits if not careful. So I would be certain to
check the temps at a frequent rate on your next take-off until you
know how the system is going to react - hate to see you cook your
engine during your first real Turbo climb out. > > I
find for my Rv-6A that I needed to get to 120 mph IAS as quick as
possible to get on the good side of the cooling curve. So
that generally meant take off - get safely above surround
obstructions, then level off/reduce climb until airspeed hit 120.
Then I could resume climb with cooling gradually bring the
temps down as altitude and airflow increased. Your sweet
spot airspeed would undoubtedly be different given different
platform and cooling set up. > > Ed > >
-------------------------------------------------- > From:
"Chris Barber" < cbarber@texasattorney.net> > Sent:
Monday, August 20, 2012 9:17 PM > To: "Rotary motors in
aircraft" < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> > Subject:
[FlyRotary] Turbo question. > >> As I have
mentioned I have had what I think are incongruent readings
regarding my manifold pressure (mp)and engine rpm. It seems I am
getting quite low mp as I add power to higher
rpm. >> >> I am not well versed in this area but
my thought is that as I add power, even with slight boost
(currently using a 3 lb spring in my wastegate) eventually my mp
should raise a bit more. >> >> Today I did some
static test. I recorded engine RPM with the turbo hooked up
and recorded the mp at 1000 rpm increments. Then I removed the
turbo plumbing from my intake and recorded the same info My
results currently confuse me. >> >> With the
turbo hooked up I am getting >> >> RPM.
MP inches >> 2000 - 14.0 >> 3000 -
15.5 >> 4000 - 19.3 >> 5000 - 21.6 >>
5700 - 24.5 (topped out) >> >> With the turbo
removed. >> >> 2000 - 15.8 >> 3000 -
15.3 >> 4000 - 19.7 >> 5000 - 24.8 >>
5833 - 29.8 >> >> Is this indicative of
restriction in my plumbing? Perhaps in the inter cooler? A dirty
air filter? A bad pop off valve or a leak not allowing the air
pressure getting to the intake. Or???? >> >> I
am uncertain what other permitters I need to check and provide. I
am just starting my diagnosis in my Phase One testing. I only have
1.6 hours in the air so far. I value ya'll's direction and
input. >> >> Heck, perhaps this is working
properly but it just doesn't seem
right/comfortable. >> >> Thanks
folks. >> >> Chris Barber >>
Houston >> Velocity SE >> Rotary 13b turbo (?)
:-) >> >> >> >> Sent from my
iPhone 4 >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/>> Archive
and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>> >> >>
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Regards
Andrew Martin
Martin
Ag
275 Newmarracarra Rd
Moonyoonooka WA
6532
0427477144
08 99241145
andrew@martinag.com.au
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