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[166.147.66.246]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ql3sm10531200obc.17.2012.08.24.16.42.27 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 24 Aug 2012 16:42:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Check Temps on Climbout was e: [FlyRotary]Turboquestion. References: From: Dave Staten Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6F166644-2566-4442-B355-5A671FBAC4F8 X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (9B206) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 18:42:19 -0500 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-6F166644-2566-4442-B355-5A671FBAC4F8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Air at altitude is cooler because of low pressure. When you compress it, it h= eats. Intake temps can be over 250 degrees, greatly increasing the chance of= detonation. Intercoolers are VERY necessary if you want to reap any benefit= from the turbo.=20 Dave.=20 Sent from my iPhone On Aug 23, 2012, at 17:45, hoursaway1@comcast.net wrote: > Hay Chris, I'm not turbo savy, but do you realy need an intercooler,,,,,,= ,at altitude,,,,,, the air is pretty cold already, the racers on the ground n= eed them because the air near the ground is hot, not at 6000+++ feet. just a= thought & will be watching, a turbo instead of a muffler I'm thinking may b= e a better choice. David R. Cook RV6A Rotary Lansing MI. >=20 > From: "Chris Barber" > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:49:50 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Check Temps on Climbout was e: [FlyRotary]Turboqu= estion. >=20 > Yes. That is correct. The 3lb spring limits boost it is the lowest I have a= s I wanted to start low.=20 > I checked my intercooler and it is flowing well. No obstruction or leak I c= ould find. It may be the location of the blow of valve. I will remove it and= see if I get good boost >=20 >=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone 4 >=20 > On Aug 22, 2012, at 6:30 PM, "CozyGirrrl@aol.com" wro= te: >=20 > Andrew, I believe the 3 lb spring he is talking about is the wastegate spr= ing, this limits boost, the 3 lb one is the lowest boost available, as the s= prings get stronger the more exhaust is forced through the turbo. > Chris? > =20 > Chrissi & Randi >=20 > www.CozyGirrrl.com > ClickBonds 10/$7.50 > CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware > Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop > =20 > In a message dated 8/22/2012 6:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, andrew@ma= rtinag.com.au writes: > Chris >=20 > if your blow off valve is before the intercooler, it may just be opening t= oo soon with that 3lb spring and allowing all your air to vent, then the eng= ine would act as NA but with the intercooler as a added restriction. try a h= eavier spring. >=20 > Andrew >=20 > On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Chris Barber w= rote: > Thanks Ed. I am pleased you verified my concern after my cooling skyrocket= ing yesterday when I went to full power. >=20 > Trying to determine where the restriction is now. >=20 > You are the best. >=20 > Sent from my iPhone 4 >=20 > On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:48 PM, "Ed Anderson" wro= te: >=20 > > Chris, One thing to be checking on your next take off is your coolant/oi= l temps. As you know take-off is the worst combination of low cooling air m= ass flow and max engine temperature due to WOT. > > > > You would be surprised how quickly (with the additional power you now ha= ve) you will exceed your cooling limits if not careful. So I would be certa= in to check the temps at a frequent rate on your next take-off until you kno= w how the system is going to react - hate to see you cook your engine during= your first real Turbo climb out. > > > > I find for my Rv-6A that I needed to get to 120 mph IAS as quick as poss= ible to get on the good side of the cooling curve. So that generally meant t= ake off - get safely above surround obstructions, then level off/reduce clim= b until airspeed hit 120. Then I could resume climb with cooling gradually b= ring the temps down as altitude and airflow increased. Your sweet spot airs= peed would undoubtedly be different given different platform and cooling set= up. > > > > Ed > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Chris Barber" > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:17 PM > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbo question. > > > >> As I have mentioned I have had what I think are incongruent readings re= garding my manifold pressure (mp)and engine rpm. It seems I am getting quite= low mp as I add power to higher rpm. > >> > >> I am not well versed in this area but my thought is that as I add power= , even with slight boost (currently using a 3 lb spring in my wastegate) eve= ntually my mp should raise a bit more. > >> > >> Today I did some static test. I recorded engine RPM with the turbo hoo= ked up and recorded the mp at 1000 rpm increments. Then I removed the turbo p= lumbing from my intake and recorded the same info My results currently confu= se me. > >> > >> With the turbo hooked up I am getting > >> > >> RPM. MP inches > >> 2000 - 14.0 > >> 3000 - 15.5 > >> 4000 - 19.3 > >> 5000 - 21.6 > >> 5700 - 24.5 (topped out) > >> > >> With the turbo removed. > >> > >> 2000 - 15.8 > >> 3000 - 15.3 > >> 4000 - 19.7 > >> 5000 - 24.8 > >> 5833 - 29.8 > >> > >> Is this indicative of restriction in my plumbing? Perhaps in the inter c= ooler? A dirty air filter? A bad pop off valve or a leak not allowing the ai= r pressure getting to the intake. Or???? > >> > >> I am uncertain what other permitters I need to check and provide. I am j= ust starting my diagnosis in my Phase One testing. I only have 1.6 hours in t= he air so far. I value ya'll's direction and input. > >> > >> Heck, perhaps this is working properly but it just doesn't seem right/c= omfortable. > >> > >> Thanks folks. > >> > >> Chris Barber > >> Houston > >> Velocity SE > >> Rotary 13b turbo (?) :-) > >> > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone 4 > >> -- > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Lis= t.html > >> > >> > >> ----- > >> No virus found in this message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: 08/20/= 12 > >> > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Li= st.html >=20 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List= .html >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Regards >=20 > Andrew Martin > Martin Ag > 275 Newmarracarra Rd > Moonyoonooka WA 6532 >=20 > 0427477144 > 08 99241145 > andrew@martinag.com.au --Apple-Mail-6F166644-2566-4442-B355-5A671FBAC4F8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Air at altitude is cooler b= ecause of low pressure. When you compress it, it heats. Intake temps can be o= ver 250 degrees, greatly increasing the chance of detonation. Intercoolers a= re VERY necessary if you want to reap any benefit from the turbo. 

Dave. 

Sent from my iPhone

On= Aug 23, 2012, at 17:45, hoursaway= 1@comcast.net wrote:

<= div>
Hay C= hris,  I'm not turbo savy, but do you realy need an intercooler,,,,,,,a= t altitude,,,,,, the air is pretty cold already, the racers on the ground ne= ed them because the air near the ground is hot, not at 6000+++ feet.  j= ust a thought & will be watching, a turbo instead of a muffler I'm think= ing may be a better choice.  David R. Cook  RV6A  Rotary Lans= ing MI.

From: "Chris Barber" <cbarber@texasattorney.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"= <flyrotary@lancaironline.= net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:49:50 PM
Subj= ect: [FlyRotary] Re: Check Temps on Climbout was e: [FlyRotary]Turboques= tion.

Yes. That is correct. The 3lb spring limits boost it is the lowest I ha= ve as I wanted to start low. 
I checked my intercooler and it is flowing well. No obstruction or leak= I could find. It may be the location of the blow of valve. I will remove it= and see if I get good boost



Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 22, 2012, at 6:30 PM, "CozyGirrrl@aol.com" <CozyGirrrl@aol.com> wrote:

=
Andrew, I believe the 3 lb spring he is talking about is the wastegate s= pring, this limits boost, the 3 lb one is the lowest boost available, as the= springs get stronger the more exhaust is forced through the turbo.
Chris?
 
Chrissi & Randi

<= a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.cozygirrrl.com/">www.CozyGirrrl.com
ClickBonds 10/$7.50
CG Products, Custom Aircraft HardwareChairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
 
In a message dated 8/22/2012 6:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, andrew@martinag.com.au= writes:
Chris

if your blow off valve is before the i= ntercooler, it may just be opening too soon with that 3lb spring and allowin= g all your air to vent, then the engine would act as NA but with the interco= oler as a added restriction. try a heavier spring.

Andrew

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
Thanks Ed. I am pleased you verifi= ed my concern after my cooling skyrocketing yesterday when I went to full po= wer.

Trying to determine where the restriction is now.

You are= the best.

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:48 PM, "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:

> Chri= s, One thing to be checking on your next take off is your coolant/oil temps.=  As you know take-off is the worst combination of low cooling air mass= flow and max engine temperature due to WOT.
>
> You would be su= rprised how quickly (with the additional power you now have) you will exceed= your cooling limits if not careful.  So I would be certain to check th= e temps at a frequent rate on your next take-off until you know how the syst= em is going to react - hate to see you cook your engine during your first re= al Turbo climb out.
>
> I find for my Rv-6A that I needed to get= to 120 mph IAS as quick as possible to get on the good side of the cooling c= urve.  So that generally meant take off - get safely above surround obs= tructions, then level off/reduce climb until airspeed hit 120.  Then I c= ould resume climb with cooling gradually bring the temps down as altitude an= d airflow increased.  Your sweet spot airspeed would undoubtedly be dif= ferent given different platform and cooling set up.
>
> Ed
&g= t;
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "= Chris Barber" <cbarber@texasattorney.net>
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:17 PM
> To: "Rotary moto= rs in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline= .net>
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbo question.
>
>>= ; As I have mentioned I have had what I think are incongruent readings regar= ding my manifold pressure (mp)and engine rpm. It seems I am getting quite lo= w mp as I add power to higher rpm.
>>
>> I am not well ver= sed in this area but my thought is that as I add power, even with slight boo= st (currently using a 3 lb spring in my wastegate) eventually my mp should r= aise a bit more.
>>
>> Today I did some static test. I rec= orded engine RPM with the  turbo hooked up and recorded the mp at 1000 r= pm increments. Then I removed the turbo plumbing from my intake and recorded= the same info My results currently confuse me.
>>
>> With= the turbo hooked up I am getting
>>
>> RPM.   MP inc= hes
>> 2000 - 14.0
>> 3000 - 15.5
>> 4000 - 19.3<= br>>> 5000 - 21.6
>> 5700 - 24.5 (topped out)
>>
= >> With the turbo removed.
>>
>> 2000 - 15.8
>= > 3000 - 15.3
>> 4000 - 19.7
>> 5000 - 24.8
>>= 5833 - 29.8
>>
>> Is this indicative of restriction in my= plumbing? Perhaps in the inter cooler? A dirty air filter? A bad pop off va= lve or a leak not allowing the air pressure getting to the intake. Or????>>
>> I am uncertain what other permitters I need to check a= nd provide. I am just starting my diagnosis in my Phase One testing. I only h= ave 1.6 hours in the air so far. I value ya'll's direction and input.
>= ;>
>> Heck, perhaps this is working properly but it just doesn't= seem right/comfortable.
>>
>> Thanks folks.
>>>> Chris Barber
>> Houston
>> Velocity SE
>&= gt; Rotary 13b turbo (?) :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>= Sent from my iPhone 4
>> --
>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub: http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>>
>= ;>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>&= gt; Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2197 / V= irus Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: 08/20/12
>>
>
>= ; --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html

--
Homepage:  http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lanca= ironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html



--
Regards

Andrew Martin
Martin A= g
275 Newmarracarra Rd
Moonyoonooka WA 6532

0427477144
08 99= 241145
andrew@martinag.com.au
= = --Apple-Mail-6F166644-2566-4442-B355-5A671FBAC4F8--