X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nskntmtas03p.mx.bigpond.com ([61.9.168.143] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5724892 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:53:43 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=61.9.168.143; envelope-from=neil.unger@bigpond.com Received: from nskntcmgw08p ([61.9.169.168]) by nskntmtas03p.mx.bigpond.com with ESMTP id <20120823035307.JDRF10464.nskntmtas03p.mx.bigpond.com@nskntcmgw08p> for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 03:53:07 +0000 Received: from UserPC ([58.166.163.111]) by nskntcmgw08p with BigPond Outbound id q3sq1j00X2QXGeJ013stmx; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 03:53:07 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=COSorGXD c=1 sm=1 a=poRSjtlwThitjsK4QwuAsg==:17 a=pavx0Go1UGgA:10 a=JDadKst33uMA:10 a=ot0gUG65oqYA:10 a=1IlZJK9HAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=GKKQBfEPQsDZz_35hjAA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=axpcdr30B_eOVemL:21 a=FKqN26rTOiW8Qis6:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=HHGDD-5mAAAA:8 a=hAGqJhKjSG9u7DKtIC4A:9 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=i1zE5R4R5dEA:10 a=Z1BvOZmT1TIA:10 a=aAA5zyeYLpQp85c3:21 a=q3yDg-aepnLWhRXd:21 a=poRSjtlwThitjsK4QwuAsg==:117 Message-ID: From: "Neil Unger" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 13:52:37 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01CD8136.8E279BF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3555.308 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CD8136.8E279BF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, All inlet ports were blocked with a heat resistant epoxy. The = bloke that P ported the rotor housings did it so I cannot tell you what = it was other than it was dear. P ported the inlets only as the renesis = does calm the exhaust noise a little. Neil. From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 1:46 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs Neil, I am curious about how you blocked the side ports on the Renesis in = order to P-port it. Did you P-port both the intake and exhaust? It = seems it would be easier to P-port the intake on an older 13B and put = Renesis 10:1 ratio rotors in it. =20 How did you do it?? =20 Bill B =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Neil Unger Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:21 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs =20 ED and all. Ran up to 6300 revs (approx) and the fuel flow was showing 14.1 = GPH at 14 A/F ratio. Not sure that the fuel flow is correct as has not = been set yet. This is Tracy=E2=80=99s standard setting so far. Engine = is lumpy under 1800 rpm and has its moments until over 3000 rpm when = everything acts normally. Suspect that part of the blame may be the = slide throttle. Have 6.5 hours on the ground so far and will check for = another few hours yet. Full noise gives an EGT of 1770, so will have to = up the alarm limit to 1800. Finally fixed all the oil and water leaks. = Any advice re what to check next before take off ? Neil. =20 From: Stephen Izett=20 Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:21 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs =20 Hi Ed=20 =20 Thanks for the offer but I'm not flying yet. Hopefully early next year. =20 Steve Izett Glasair SIIRG Renesis 4 port RD1C EC2 EM3 On 22/08/2012, at 8:51 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: Steve, if you give me the fuel flow you are seeing at 6300 rpm and = manifold pressure, I can give you a pretty good estimate from my = spreadsheet of what power you are producing. Also should you happen to = have the Air/Fuel ratio that would be a plus but not essential. =20 Ed =20 From: Stephen Izett=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 7:23 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs =20 Thanks Ed=20 I've wondered what my Renesis 4 port with a good intake manifold and in = flight adjustable prop will produce. So on a cold day she will hopefully still breath to 7250RPM and maybe = approach 200HP? =20 Cheers =20 Steve Izett =20 =20 On 21/08/2012, at 11:40 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: Steve, =20 On a cold morning when I can see 19-20 gph on take off at 6200 rpm, I = calculate based on fuel burn rate and an air/fuel ratio of 12.65:1 that = I am probably producing around 180-185 HP. On hot days based on fuel = burn of 16.5-17.0 GPH, I calculate around 165-170 HP. =20 The fastest I've ever had the Rv-6A was 200 mph TAS burning round = 13.25-14.5 GPH. =20 But, none of this was done on a dyno - its based on fuel burn and rpm = and we all know a rotary can pass through more fuel than is producing = power. Anyhow, it=E2=80=99s the best estimate I have. =20 =20 Ed =20 From: Stephen Izett=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 10:31 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs =20 Ed=20 =20 Out of interest, what do you think you are getting in HP from your 13B = and at what RPM? =20 Steve Izett =20 =20 =20 On 21/08/2012, at 9:15 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: I would say you have winner. Does of course depend on what prop load = you were pulling during static run.=20 =20 I have a fixed pitch 74x88 and a well-tuned older 13B and the best I = have ever got static - was 6200 rpm on a cold day. Normally, I get = 6000-6100 rpm. =20 =20 So depending on your prop, it looks like you are doing great for static = rpm. =20 Ed =20 From: Neil Unger=20 Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:48 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Prop revs =20 All, Looks like I am finally connected after many attempts.. I have a = P ported renesis in a glastar that is ready to fly. Tuning the motor = yesterday to find that I cannot get the motor revs over 6300. I = suspected the prop (prince fixed) is too big, but am assured that that = is normal as a static load. Lonnie suggests that once moving the extra = revs will appear. How do I tune the motor for the top end revs? Any = advice? Neil. No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: = 08/20/12 =20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5212 - Release Date: = 08/20/12 =20 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5217 - Release Date: = 08/22/12 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CD8136.8E279BF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
       All inlet ports were blocked = with a=20 heat resistant epoxy.  The bloke that P ported the rotor housings = did it so=20 I cannot tell you what it was other than it was dear.   P = ported the=20 inlets only as the renesis does calm the exhaust noise a little. =20 Neil.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 1:46 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs
 

Neil,

I am curious = about how=20 you blocked the side ports on the Renesis in order to P-port it.  = Did you=20 P-port both the intake and exhaust?  It seems it would be easier to = P-port=20 the intake on an older 13B and put Renesis 10:1 ratio rotors in=20 it.

 

How did you = do=20 it??

 

Bill=20 B

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Neil Unger
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 = 11:21=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop=20 revs

 

ED and=20 all.

       =20 Ran up to 6300 revs (approx) and the fuel flow was showing 14.1 GPH at = 14 A/F=20 ratio.  Not sure that the fuel flow is correct as has not been set = yet.=20 This is Tracy=E2=80=99s=20 standard setting so far.   Engine is lumpy under 1800 rpm and = has its=20 moments until over 3000 rpm when everything acts normally. Suspect that = part of=20 the blame may be the slide throttle.  Have 6.5 hours on the ground = so far=20 and will check for another few hours yet.  Full noise gives an EGT = of 1770,=20 so will have to up the alarm limit to 1800. Finally fixed all the oil = and water=20 leaks.  Any advice re what to check next before take off ? =20 Neil.

 

From: Stephen = Izett=20

Sent: Thursday, = August 23,=20 2012 9:21 AM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Prop=20 revs

 

Hi Ed=20

 

Thanks for = the offer=20 but I'm not flying yet.

Hopefully = early next=20 year.

 

Steve=20 Izett

Glasair = SIIRG=20 Renesis 4 port RD1C EC2 EM3

On = 22/08/2012, at=20 8:51 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:



Steve, if = you give me=20 the fuel flow you are seeing at 6300 rpm and manifold pressure, I can = give you a=20 pretty good estimate from my spreadsheet of what power you are = producing. =20 Also should you happen to have the Air/Fuel ratio that would be a plus = but not=20 essential.

 

Ed

 

From: Stephen = Izett=20

Sent: Tuesday, = August 21,=20 2012 7:23 PM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Prop=20 revs

 

Thanks Ed=20

I've = wondered what=20 my Renesis 4 port with a good intake manifold and in flight adjustable = prop will=20 produce.

So on a = cold day she=20 will hopefully still breath to 7250RPM and maybe approach=20 200HP?

 

Cheers

 

Steve=20 Izett

 

 

On = 21/08/2012, at=20 11:40 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:



Steve,

 

On a cold = morning when=20 I can see 19-20 gph on take off at 6200 rpm, I calculate based on fuel = burn rate=20 and an air/fuel ratio of 12.65:1 that I am probably producing around = 180-185=20 HP.  On hot days based on fuel burn of 16.5-17.0 GPH, I calculate = around=20 165-170 HP.

 

The fastest = I've ever=20 had the Rv-6A was 200 mph TAS burning round 13.25-14.5 = GPH.

 

But, none of = this was=20 done on a dyno - its based on fuel burn and rpm and  we all know a = rotary=20 can pass through more fuel than is producing power.  Anyhow, = it=E2=80=99s the best=20 estimate I have. 

 

Ed

 

From: Stephen Izett=20

Sent: Tuesday, = August 21,=20 2012 10:31 AM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Prop=20 revs

 

Ed=20

 

Out of = interest,=20 what do you think you are getting in HP from your 13B and at what=20 RPM?

 

Steve=20 Izett

 

 

 

On = 21/08/2012, at=20 9:15 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:



I would say = you=20 have  winner.  Does of course depend on what prop load you = were=20 pulling during static run.

 

I have a = fixed pitch=20 74x88 and a well-tuned older 13B and the best I have ever got static - = was 6200=20 rpm on a cold day.  Normally, I get 6000-6100 rpm. =20

 

So depending = on your=20 prop, it looks like you are doing great for static = rpm.

 

Ed

 

From: Neil Unger=20

Sent: Monday, = August 20,=20 2012 9:48 PM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Prop=20 revs

 

All,

      =20 Looks like I am finally connected after many attempts..  I have a P = ported=20 renesis in a glastar that is ready to fly.  Tuning the motor = yesterday to=20 find that I cannot get the motor revs over 6300.  I suspected the = prop=20 (prince fixed) is too big, but am assured that that is normal as a = static=20 load.  Lonnie suggests that once moving the extra revs will = appear. =20 How do I tune the motor for the top end revs?  Any advice? =20 Neil.

No virus = found in=20 this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / = Virus=20 Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date:=20 08/20/12

 

No virus = found in=20 this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / = Virus=20 Database: 2437/5212 - Release Date:=20 08/20/12

 

No virus = found in=20 this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / = Virus=20 Database: 2437/5217 - Release Date:=20 08/22/12

 

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