X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com ([74.125.82.50] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.3) with ESMTPS id 5344557 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 10 Jan 2012 11:26:17 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.50; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by wgbdr11 with SMTP id dr11so2641642wgb.7 for ; Tue, 10 Jan 2012 08:25:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=ePrxYedFLL5np1gH0FOhRPcndnMUF5qwTLUkrR4Q+R4=; b=X0MLeFr1exxT22XdP80qUICuM5DRZ/33HLQaiQ5dOTLsoiTuE2vTMmQV1k2Td7lPh9 hiie/jZHVP8U85NHVNU35lI/Z+c//Cwk62fq5z1kjh5OSaver+s3BIv9AZS6rIF3mI0z RCDOyjrdaG9xfE/PVClGF00yb0MwkMxO/Y5Q0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.77.136 with SMTP id s8mr13055067wiw.0.1326212739879; Tue, 10 Jan 2012 08:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.78.206 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jan 2012 08:25:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 10:25:39 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: RD1B Failure From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c80ee41d49b04b62ef756 --f46d043c80ee41d49b04b62ef756 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ed, For the record, I too have experienced two re-drive failures similar to Dave's. Actually, it was one re-drive failure and one flywheel failure. First I had a pin failure on the sun gear/input shaft. Like Dave, this happened on the ground. The pin was upsized to 3/8" and so far it is working fine. I believe this may have been a result of rough running partially attributed to my less than perfect tuning techniques as well as an EC-2 issue with my CAS. Now that the CAS issue has been resolved, I am cautiously optimistic that this particular failure won't happen again. The other failure was to the flexplate. While it didn't totally fail, it was just a matter of time as there were cracks forming in the vicinity of the big holes. I've replaced the flexplate with a new one and now check it regularly. One probable cause for the failure was an out-of-true flexplate. The new one is true within .010". For the record, I'm running a n/a p-ported 20B. I typically see only limited periods of 300+ hp during takeoff/climbout. Please take good care of YOUR glider trophy, and keep a spot on YOUR mantle for all to admire. Mark S. On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: > ** > Well, Dave, I must say you time your failures much better than I do. > > Your's appear to have the good manners to wait until you are back on the > ground {:>). Actually, its clear your protocol of checking things after a > flight is what has "saved" my glider record {:<( > > Actually, I am impressed that the RD seems to be fairly robust in failure > modes - in that it appears to keep functioning (more or less), until you > are back on the ground. > > That kind of HP and the G loading is apparently pushing the RD to its > limits. But, as I am reminded, its only until the limits of anything are > exceeded that you realllllyyyyy know what the limits are - all else is > theoretically {:>). As we both know, it is generally the racer who finds > those limits by pushing the envelop. > > So Thanks for that valuable information and the seat cushions it may have > taken to get it. > > Ed > > Edward L. Anderson > Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC > 305 Reefton Road > Weddington, NC 28104 > http://www.andersonee.com > http://www.eicommander.com > > *From:* David Leonard > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:32 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: RD1B Failure > > Hi Ed, > Yes you have missed quite a saga and several failures. The underlying > cause of that one seems to be that the auto flex plate fatigued and broke, > leading to the pin failure (oversized pin). I replaced the flex plate with > a modified 4130 flywheel that seems much better suited to the purpose than > the flex-plate. > > I then had another failure of the RD-1B when the oiling system did not > seem up to the task during my qualifying run at Reno (clocked at 229 mph > while pulling 2Gs around the course). Of course, I was probably making > over 300 h.p. and pushing the RD-1B beyond its design limits. Not to > mention that my oil temps were not being measured well and have probably > always been higher than I thought. I am guessing oil temps were in excess > of 250F when the main plain bearing in the RD-1B seized (after landing). > > I have since had another failure. This time the sun gear pin seems to > have simply fallen out! Well, it fell out as much as it could until the > housing would not let it completely go, until the last little piece of the > pin sheared off. This was amazingly, again, discovered on the ground after > a long over-mountainous-terrain flight to Las Vegas. > > So despite 4 RD-1B failures in 3 different places all in 2011 (the pin > twice, the flex plate, and the main bearing - probably all related to > racing in Reno that year) I have not made any ground toward threatening > your rotary glider time record. :-) > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 6:57 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: > >> ** >> Hey, Dave >> >> Glad you didn't further challenge my Glider record {:>). >> >> I was thinking that perhaps the stress of the Reno Races might be a >> contributing factor to the gear box problem. Particularly if the shear pin >> was designed for a N/A 13B. Anyhow, hopefully, it is that simple a cause >> and you find no further damage. >> >> Send from Lake of The Ozarks resort - looking out over the waves and >> reclining in a lounge chair in the cool morning breeze >> >> Ed >> >> Edward L. Anderson >> Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC >> 305 Reefton Road >> Weddington, NC 28104 >> http://www.andersonee.com >> http://www.eicommander.com >> >> *From:* David Leonard >> *Sent:* Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:58 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] RD1B Failure >> >> Today had a failure of my RD-1B gear drive. It couldn't have happened at >> a better time, I was just taxiing off the runway at my home airport. I >> just finished flying 200 mi. to Santa Paula to help Paul with the getting >> of Mike Wills airplane back into the air. Flight home was otherwise >> unevenful and beautiful. I didn't bother taking it apart, but will do so >> tomorrow. Feels like I may have broken the sun gear pin again but will >> have to wait until tomorrow to be sure. The strange thing is that nothing >> particularly stressed it. >> >> Sorry there is not cause I can report... a little suspense until tomorrow. >> >> -- >> David Leonard >> >> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >> http://RotaryRoster.net >> > > > > > --f46d043c80ee41d49b04b62ef756 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed,=A0

For the record, I too have experienced two re-dri= ve failures similar to Dave's. =A0Actually, it was one re-drive failure= and one flywheel failure. =A0

First I had a pin f= ailure on the sun gear/input shaft. =A0Like Dave, this happened on the grou= nd. =A0The pin was upsized to 3/8" and so far it is working fine. =A0I= believe this may have been a result of rough running partially attributed = to my less than perfect tuning techniques as well as an EC-2 issue with my = CAS. =A0Now that the CAS issue has been resolved, I am cautiously optimisti= c that this particular failure won't happen again.=A0

The other failure was to the flexplate. =A0While it did= n't totally fail, it was just a matter of time as there were cracks for= ming in the vicinity of the big holes. =A0I've replaced the flexplate w= ith a new one and now check it regularly. =A0One probable cause for the fai= lure was an out-of-true flexplate. =A0The new one is true within .010"= .

For the record, I'm running a n/a p-ported 20B. =A0= I typically see only limited periods of 300+ hp during takeoff/climbout.=A0=

Please take good care of YOUR glider trophy, and = keep a spot on YOUR mantle for all to admire. =A0

Mark S. =A0

On Tue, J= an 10, 2012 at 9:46 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:=
Well, Dave, =A0I must say you time your failures = much=20 better than I do.
=A0
=A0 Your's appear to have the good manners to= wait=20 until you are back on the ground {:>).=A0 Actually, its clear your=20 protocol of checking things after a flight is what has "saved" my= glider record=20 {:<(
=A0
Actually, I am impressed that the RD seems to be = fairly=20 robust in failure modes - in that it appears to keep functioning (more or l= ess),=20 until you are back on the ground.=A0
=A0
That kind of HP and the G loading is apparently p= ushing=20 the RD to its limits.=A0 But, as I am reminded, its only until the limits o= f=20 anything are exceeded that you realllllyyyyy know what the limits are - all= else=20 is theoretically {:>).=A0 As we both know, it is generally the racer who= =20 finds those limits by pushing the envelop.
=A0
So Thanks for that valuable information and the s= eat=20 cushions it may have taken to get it.
=A0
Ed
=A0
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterpr= ises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:32 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <= /div>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: RD1B Failure

Hi Ed,=20
Yes you have missed quite a saga and several failures. =A0The underlyi= ng=20 cause of that one seems to be that the auto flex plate fatigued and broke,= =20 leading to the pin failure (oversized pin). =A0I replaced the flex plate wi= th=20 a modified 4130 flywheel that seems much better suited to the purpose than = the=20 flex-plate. =A0

I then had another failure of the RD-1B when the oiling system did not= seem=20 up to the task during my qualifying run at Reno (clocked at 229 mph while= =20 pulling 2Gs around the course). =A0Of course, I was probably making over 30= 0=20 h.p. and pushing the RD-1B beyond its design limits. =A0Not to mention that= =20 my oil temps were not being measured well and have probably always been hig= her=20 than I thought. =A0I am guessing oil temps were in excess of 250F when the= =20 main plain bearing in the RD-1B=A0seized (after landing).

I have since had another failure. =A0This time the sun gear pin seems = to=20 have simply fallen out! =A0Well, it fell out as much as it could until the= =20 housing would not let it=A0completely=A0go, until the=20 last=A0little=A0piece of the pin sheared off. =A0This was amazingly,=20 again, discovered on the ground after a long over-mountainous-terrain fligh= t to=20 Las Vegas. =A0

So despite 4 RD-1B failures in 3 different places all in 2011 (the pin= =20 twice, the flex plate, and the main bearing - probably all related to racin= g in=20 Reno that year) I have not made any ground toward threatening your rotary g= lider=20 time record. =A0:-)

--=A0
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRo= ster.net=A0

On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 6:57 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>=20 wrote:
Hey, Dave
=A0
Glad you didn't further challenge my Glider= record=20 {:>).=A0
=A0
=A0I was thinking that perhaps the stress of th= e Reno=20 Races might be a contributing factor to the gear box problem.=A0=20 Particularly if the shear pin was designed for a N/A 13B.=A0 Anyhow,=20 hopefully, it is that simple a cause and you find no further=20 damage.
=A0
Send from Lake of The Ozarks resort - looking o= ut over=20 the waves and reclining in a lounge chair in the cool morning=20 breeze
=A0
Ed
=A0
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enter= prises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.co= m

Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 11:58 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] RD1B Failure

Today had a failure of my RD-1B gear drive.=A0 It couldn&#= 39;t=20 have happened at a better time, I was just taxiing off the runway at my h= ome=20 airport.=A0 I just finished flying 200 mi. to Santa Paula to help Paul wi= th=20 the getting of Mike Wills airplane back into the air.=A0 Flight home was= =20 otherwise unevenful and beautiful.=A0 I didn't bother taking it apart= , but=20 will do so tomorrow.=A0 Feels like I may have broken the sun gear pin aga= in=20 but will have to wait until tomorrow to be sure.=A0 The strange thing is= =20 that nothing particularly stressed it.

Sorry there is not cause I= can=20 report... a little suspense until tomorrow.

--
David=20 Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net





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